John and I have a great talk about the new reports from Enverus on the “Upstream Emissions Starting the Decent to Net Zero” and “Say Goodbye to Flaring Uncertainty.” With both of these extensive reports, we had a lot to cover.
Some of the critical points involve “Legislation Through Regulations and Taxation Through Regulations.”
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Here is just a teaser for the podcast. Full transcript is below.
John Gutentag [00:05:22] So how the tax works are it’s all based on what operators have to report to what’s called Subpart W, which is part of the Greenhouse Gas Reporting program. So it’s what they report to the EPA. So you only have to report from certain sources like pneumatic controllers, combustion of gas and diesel, and things like that. Right now, today, like if there’s a large leak, there’s no good methodology to report that. But one of the things we talk about, the pneumatic controller rule change, one thing they propose within that to separate from pneumatic controllers is the requirement for operators to report large methane release events under subpart W. So today they don’t report that nothing which would which would mean it wouldn’t get taxed. But they’re adding that to where you will report methane, or it’s proposed that you report methane from these large events, which then would potentially incur a liability. It’s not guaranteed you could still be below the threshold, but it’s now reported under subpart W. So that’s what’s the baseline for the tax.
Stuart Turley [00:06:22] Wow. That has serious implications. I mean, we’re talking seriously.
Check out Enverus HERE
Automatic Transcription Edited for Grammar. We disavow any mistakes unless it makes us better-looking or appear smarter.
ENB Podcast with John Gutentag
Stuart Turley [00:00:03] To be. Hey, everybody. Today is a great day. I get to do what I love most, and that is have a podcast and have a great interview. My name’s Stu Turley, president, CEO, Sandstone Group. And I mean, I’m here with John. Gutentag. And we had a funtastic podcast a little while ago. John is freezing his Marcus off in Denver. Now, John is a analyst for the wonderful company Enverus inside baseball. I love Enverus. They’re good people, but welcome to the podcast, John.
John Gutentag [00:00:42] Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Stuart Turley [00:00:44] Well, I love the fact that you’re an analyst because I’m looking at your reports and holy smokes, Batman, That’s a lot of work.
John Gutentag [00:00:52] I appreciate that. It does. It does. It does have a lot of work. But I feel like we get some pretty good insights from it.
Stuart Turley [00:00:58] Oh, I think so. The market insights are phenomenal. And we’ve got several things to to cover in this and in John, Just get it in here a little bit. Give us a little bit of background on why you guys write these reports. We are covering the EPA’s revised pneumatic rules. I got a lot of did rules and everything else. And then the other one is upstream emissions. That’s pretty cool. Yeah. Tell us what prompted this. And then we’re going to go into a little bit on each one.
John Gutentag [00:01:33] Yeah, sure. So I guess overall for Emissions, we’ve gotten a lot of questions over the last couple of years. There’s been a lot more focus on emissions, especially from oil and gas companies. They’ve been doing a lot of work to reduce their emissions footprint. So we wanted to look at what they’re reporting and what trends we’re seeing. Are they are they selling what they’re saying they’re going to do? How does the data look? That’s from like the I guess, like the viewpoint of how to put it, like what the market looks like today. But then there’s also a regulatory piece and the IRAs, methane tax, where some of these emissions data can translate into an actual tax liability starting in 2024. So we want to see the industry trends. And then we also want to see like what that liability can look like. And then it’s regulations are pretty complicated. Some smaller companies don’t have as robust of a regulatory team. So what we try to do is provide some insight into what we’re seeing, and what we’re hearing in our conversations.
Stuart Turley [00:02:32] Hey, that tax, John, we covered a bit of that in our last one and that tax stuff’s terrible. If you don’t hit those numbers, you go X number of dollars and you will solve the $32 trillion deficit if if you do that. I mean, you got to be prepared with this. You got to have the knowledge, right?
John Gutentag [00:02:53] Yeah. Yeah. And our overall view is actually that we don’t think it’s going to be incredibly impactful to everyone. We think it’s going to be impactful to a minority of producers because it is that intensity based tax where you only pay tax beyond a certain threshold so you can emit methane and pay nothing. It’s just only when you a bit too much per unit of the production that you’ll end up paying. And when we did our analysis based on 2020 data, it was actually only 30% of gas production falls above that threshold. So 70% of gas production will not be taxed. And that’s 2020 data. We think operators are going to continue to reduce their methane emissions before the tax is even implemented. So what our overall view of it was regulation via taxation. So it’s not long-term revenue generation. It’s the EPA wants to see these methane reductions. It takes a long time for actual regulations to pass to be implemented, which they are trying to do right now. But is it was a quicker method to do it this way is our viewpoint. So it’s just incentivizing early adoption of future potential regulations.
Stuart Turley [00:04:01] Okay. You just said something that made my head explode. Okay? I talked about legislation through regulation all the time, and if they can’t get it put through to, you know, Congress, they led, they regulate it. You just said taxation. It’s regulation. Holy smokes.
John Gutentag [00:04:20] That’s almost a little backward. And even talk about it in their proposal for these new regulations, they say they anticipate that operators are going to be doing a lot of this stuff voluntarily to reduce methane emissions even before these regulations come into effect. And right now, they’re just proposed. We don’t know what they’ll actually look like in a final version. But we have looked at the proposal and looked at some of the some of the things that they’re going to require from operators. And if you look at a lot of operators, they’re already starting to do these things four or five years before they would even be required to do them.
Stuart Turley [00:04:53] Oh, yeah. Hey, are you familiar with the one? There is a a pretty fairly large methane cloud in, in the Permian. I can’t remember the basin that it’s in right now and I’m seeing it in the. Knows that somebody has got a gas leak out there and they can’t figure it out or anything like that. If you have a break in a pipeline and it is huge, would that fit into the taxation or is it just production?
John Gutentag [00:05:22] So how the tax works are it’s all based on what operators have to report to what’s called Subpart W, which is part of the Greenhouse Gas Reporting program. So it’s what they report to the EPA. So you only have to report from certain sources like pneumatic controllers, combustion of gas and diesel, and things like that. Right now, today, like if there’s a large leak, there’s no good methodology to report that. But one of the things we talk about, the pneumatic controller rule change, one thing they propose within that to separate from pneumatic controllers is the requirement for operators to report large methane release events under subpart W. So today they don’t report that nothing which would which would mean it wouldn’t get taxed. But they’re adding that to where you will report methane, or it’s proposed that you report methane from these large events, which then would potentially incur a liability. It’s not guaranteed you could still be below the threshold, but it’s now reported under subpart W. So that’s what’s the baseline for the tax.
Stuart Turley [00:06:22] Wow. That has serious implications. I mean, we’re talking seriously.
John Gutentag [00:06:28] Yeah. Like, we looked at some there was like the Aliso Canyon gas storage blowout in Southern California back in 2015, 2016 that released 100,000 metric tons of methane. If you’re looking at it in 2026, the methane tax, 1500 dollars per metric ton, could potentially be $150 million liability. Not that they’re going to retroactively apply that, but that would be these large events going forward would have the potential to be taxed.
Stuart Turley [00:06:56] Don’t hold your breath. They tax anything, anywhere, anytime. And they may go backward because of this podcast. They get a lot of their information from the Energy news podcast.
John Gutentag [00:07:10] Driving these regulations.
Stuart Turley [00:07:12] Oh, yeah. You know, we are a resource.
John Gutentag [00:07:16] And there’s one thing I can mention, too, about those large release events is that’s talking about reporting their emissions. There’s also what’s called quarto is like the actual regulations, telling operators like you can or cannot use this equipment and things like that. This is like the frequency you need to be monitoring your well sites. One thing they’re adding and that is the super emitter response program it’s proposed. So we don’t know if that will end up being in the final version. But in that program, there is third parties, not the EPA and not the operator themselves can monitor using approved technologies for large super emitter events like the one you described. And if they see one and can accurately tag it to an operator, they report it to the EPA, and then the EPA notifies the operator and the operator has five days to go check out the site and see if they can figure out what’s going on. And then they have ten days to make corrections as what like the proposal is right now. So that’s separate from the tax or anything like that. That’s more it’s almost like third-party methane police. And they’re they’re anticipating that could be like tech vendors or researchers or non-profits, things like that. So that’s definitely a definitely on a lot of companies radar that’s on our radar. Just trying to see how that will play out.
Stuart Turley [00:08:37] Okay. My head just exploded because this has far-reaching implications. I’m going to ask two questions and follow up on this. Scope one. Scope two in scope three is something that you guys have really done well with trying to figure out all that kind of good stuff on the new emissions, and they’re trying to do all that kind of stuff. And so you’re talking downstream, you’re talking, you know, once the the EMP operators drill it, I think that’s scope one that they have opportunity to talk about, right? Yeah.
John Gutentag [00:09:09] Scope one’s like direct emissions, like, oh, you’re burning diesel to drill this well, they’re emitting methane from a tank or something like that. Like those are the scope on direct emissions.
Stuart Turley [00:09:20] Right. And so that’s what they’re directly going to be involved in this methane reporting, correct?
John Gutentag [00:09:26] Correct. Yeah. You only report ever a scope like any emissions or scope one to something. So like, when we drive our car, that’s like our scope on a mission. That’s not the oil company’s scope one, emissions for the gasoline we’re burning. It’s like RS that would be there in what they call scope three. It’s like the use of your products. And then scope two is just electricity that you’re purchasing and not generating yourself. So it’s like what you’re doing and then power and fuel. And then the last piece is the use of your products.
Stuart Turley [00:09:56] If I can see the EPA or them coming back in and trying to go if you’re on scope one and. I understand where all the rules are coming in on their e-days: revised rules, taxation through regulation. I just I love that one. And so if they try to do that, I could see them in the future trying to do taxation on all of scope three or even scope two, and scope two would be a refinery, correct? Refinery.
John Gutentag [00:10:28] So that would be that would even be scope three, unless you’re like an Exxon, where you’re like the full value chain, and you’re directly refining your own products like for an upstream only operator when their products are refined, that would be scope three. It’s like they used their product as crude oil, so they sold it to the refinery to refine it down into products. And then it’s the whole value chain. It’s so complicated, though. I really don’t anticipate, in my opinion, taxation on that or anything like that. I think you do get pressure from some investors or things like that to take into account your scope three emissions and the overall footprint of your operation. But when it comes to reporting, the EPA likes to have them report scope one emissions just because that’s what they have direct control over. They have asked for comment on should companies report the scope to emissions, like the amount of power they’re purchasing? Because it is almost direct emissions. It’s not from the use. It’s as if you’re buying power instead of generating it. That’s the pretty direct use of like, I guess, the creation of emissions. But I don’t I like myself personally, I don’t anticipate seeing a scope—three tax. Yeah, but I mean anything, anything can happen, so I can’t. I can’t say it won’t happen.
Stuart Turley [00:11:43] Though I agree with you, never know. I mean, I will leave that alone. We don’t want to get banned off of YouTube here or our podcast Shadow Banned. So, you know, this discussion is going around the increased awareness and via satellite V, everything else. And that’s how we found that I was reading these stories. They’re great about the flaring and I think that that’s great that you have the pipeline awareness through the satellite, through the higher end methodology. I do applaud that for letting people know ahead of time. And this shows you how old I am. I worked on a pipeline back in 1978, and I had to walk the pipeline. I mean, walk the pipeline for breaks back then. Yeah. And then I had to carry paint in a backpack so we could paint the poles. By law, we had to walk the pipeline. And I was the newbie or new guy, and I had to, you know, do that. And just as a real quick side note, you would never have to do this, but you had experience in the well, you know, on the operator, if I remember correctly, on the good pad, correct?
John Gutentag [00:12:57] Yeah. I worked on drilling rigs for like four and a half years for a directional drilling company. So I was on the service side, but on site.
Stuart Turley [00:13:03] Yeah, I was in the pipeline and then this job and I’m walking along, I got my big paint cans on, you know, because you have to paint the poles as they’re, they’re coming across. And I walked into a field and I felt like something was looking at me. Turned out it was a herd of Brahma bulls.
John Gutentag [00:13:25] Oh, man.
Stuart Turley [00:13:26] Oh, it was horrible. And I look up and and they’re looking at me like I’m I’m a dope. I mean, I’m absolutely I feel the hair. In fact, I still feel the hair going up. And I’m I’m calculating, you know, where these guys are, how heavy my backpack is and where’s the closest friends. And I mean, fortunately, I was young enough that my boot, my cowboy boots were going up over my head. So I was running like this and I had a barbed wire fence and jumped over it as all these bulls were running after me. And my team member was on the other side laughing so hard he couldn’t see straight. And I’m all mangled up in the ditch and he thought it was funny. Yeah.
John Gutentag [00:14:07] So yeah, I’d probably be laughing too fast out there with you.
Stuart Turley [00:14:11] Where was it? Where’s the cell phone back then? Because I would I would have been a, you know, a viral episode that I’m sure you’ve seen things as you were experience that John and I just want to shout this you out again because that made such a difference to you as an analyst for in various No. One the well bet.
John Gutentag [00:14:31] Yeah I think it gives me a lot of great context like I had the petroleum engineering degree and then I have like real insight experience to it just gives a good context of like how these operations actually happen, how they work. Nothing good. Nothing goes according to plan. Everything like you’re you’re troubleshooting all the time. There’s a there’s a lot that goes into into drilling a well.
Stuart Turley [00:14:52] But you know as we sit here and that experience helps us talk about other things and it makes it a little easier for me to be able to say, hey, you know, methane emissions I’ve seen on a pipeline. Now that can happen. And I love the new technology to be able to see these things in inaction. So as we come into this next part here and in the flaring, your other article in here, I have to hand it to the Texas operators. Over the last several years, they’ve been voluntarily doing a big reduction in flaring. And correct me if I’m wrong, but in your experience, haven’t you seen that when the pipelines are full and storage is full, they do have to flare a little bit. But the amount of flaring that has gone on has dramatically dropped. Is that a fair statement?
John Gutentag [00:15:44] Yeah. Yeah. So ever since it peaked in 2019, I can’t remember the exact month, but we’ve seen a very material drop. I believe via satellite we saw 67% drop. And then when you look at total, U.S. reported to the EPA, flaring emissions are down 50% from 2019 to 2021. So that’s huge. Yeah, no, huge. Like the the flaring decreases are massive. And we’ve we’ve talked to some operators of what they’re doing. A lot of operators. Now, before you would have to wait for a sales line to be put in so you wouldn’t wait. Sometimes like the sales line for gas would take a long time, so they’d bring the wells on online, get the oil production because that was hooked up and then they just flare the gas flaring by design. Now, most operators always wait to have the sales line put in place before they bring a well on line. They obtain redundant connections. So instead of only being connected to one system, they want to connect to two different systems. So if one of their third party gatherers goes down before for maintenance or something like that, they don’t have the flare, they just swap the valve over and go to the other one. Yep. And then they’re also working directly with those third party vendors or gatherers to work together on solutions for capacity constraints and things like that. They are getting pretty close in the Permian on capacity constraints again. So this something we’re monitoring, but flaring has definitely been the initial target for operators, I say flaring and then also a couple lower hanging fruit on the methane side to like more leak detection and then pneumatic controllers is the big one.
Stuart Turley [00:17:24] When we we talk also, I love the stories in the other Bitcoin miners and other operators that are using the stranded gas for actually power generation. I love that it turns the bitcoin mining into is, you know, ESG funding for bitcoin till bitcoin I think just totally wiped all that out.
John Gutentag [00:17:49] Yeah. Yeah.
Stuart Turley [00:17:51] I mean people are still mining, but is that taken into any consideration? I did not see that in your reports anywhere on the bitcoin mining.
John Gutentag [00:17:59] Yeah. There’s just not a lot of good public data on, on like how much of that’s actually being used. But it is a great example of this gas was being flared. They’re now setting it up to mine bitcoin and that’s offsetting the use of power from somewhere else. Like they were probably going to mine the bitcoin anyways. But now instead of using grid power, they’re using this what was originally like a waste product like flared gas, which is, which is definitely a big one there. And then like other, the increased monitoring is also pretty massive. So you seen a lot of companies move towards using continuous monitoring or aerial flyovers, satellite flyovers, drones. I’ve even heard dogs like I’ve heard a lot of different technologies like using dogs to sniff out leaks.
Stuart Turley [00:18:44] There’s a lady I’ll have to go take a look, but she’s a pipeline dog company and I really like her posts on on LinkedIn Pipeline Dog or something like that. And I mean, she has dogs that she just, you know, goes and, you know, checks pipelines with dogs. And I think that’s pretty darn cool. Yeah. It needs me going out with a herd of buffalo. I mean, a herd of Brahma bulls looking at you, I let that dog chew on that pipeline or that bull before me again. Oh, yeah.
John Gutentag [00:19:14] I see a lot of opportunity for, like, aerial flyovers, whether for pipelines, because you can cover a lot of it, which we just saw Diversified mentioned yesterday that they just surveyed 11,000 miles of their pipeline voluntarily and in 2022 and then they also did nearly 200,000 handheld leak surveys on like 95% of their producing sites in Appalachia. So that’s like some examples of them going above and beyond what’s required to mitigate methane.
Stuart Turley [00:19:43] You know, it’s kind of funny. My granddad was one of the main guys who discovered the North Slope in Alaska, and then my dad had an oil company and he was flying the pipelines. So he was a pilot and everything else. And there is a huge difference of when he was flying the pipeline, you know, rolling over like this and looking out the window versus flying the. Pipeline now with tools that you when you fly a pipeline now, it’s not nearly as as eyeball intensive. You know, back when I did it, I walked and smell and then you walk to make sure there’s no exposed. I’m sure I didn’t get everything, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you know, by law, I agree with the law and I do agree with some of the rules that the EPA’s putting in because the oil and gas is doing so much better now with all this.
John Gutentag [00:20:34] Yeah. It’s it’s changing their image or at least the working towards changing the image of the industry of what’s been historically assumed of it to what operators are doing today. And there’s definitely still a lot more wood to chop, there’s a lot more to fix and work on. But when we looked at we do that kind of a relative benchmarking of most public companies in the U.S. and like what they’re doing on environmental topics and things like that. And one thing we looked at was I think it was 75 or 80% of the operators that we look at have some sort of target in place for reducing emissions. So they had like a publicly stated target, like we’re going to do this and this is how we’re going to get there. So they typically list out like what they’re going to do, like I was talking about for flaring, they’re doing that or conducting a lot more surveys, replacing them out of controllers, electrifying compression like they’re doing a lot. There’s it’s definitely been a lot of momentum the last few years. And they do seem like we work with a lot of these teams and talk to them and they seem to take it very seriously.
Stuart Turley [00:21:32] Oh yeah. And now there’s been a John, there’s been a ton of activity and the change in the ESG investing market. And I’ve always felt that there is no ESG without accountability. And in order to have accountability, need data. And that’s why I really am a big in various fan is because if you need data in the energy space, you know, in various is one of the best ones out there. So when we see the changes, it’s kind of fun to see how the technology has changed. I mean, flaring is bad. Do you know off the top of your head whether the Marcellus is I don’t believe the Marcellus, because the Marcellus, if I understand correct me if I’m wrong, you’re the analyst in this. But yes, the Marcellus is got takeaway capacity issues. The Haynesville does not because it’s such a easy area to drill. There’s lots of takeaway. It goes to the Gulf and has a lot of LNG. The Permian has always been the winner in the problem child. I mean, the ugly baby on the doorstep, you know, as the way I called things in in college. But, you know, does that make sense? Do you is that a fair assessment or what is your thought on all that?
John Gutentag [00:22:53] So, see, and the Northeast, there’s definitely pipeline constraints because it’s hard to get pipelines approved. There’s a lot of regulatory pressure to not build them. So they’re kind of constrained by that. Haynesville, I’m not as familiar with their pipeline capacity constraints, but I am from Louisiana and it is significantly easier to build pipelines there than it is in the Northeast. There’s just a more, I guess, friendly environment towards doing that. Right. And then for the Permian, the main issues have been methane leaks and flaring. And I think they’ve done a great job on flaring and I think they’re doing a great job on Netflix right now. Like I said, there’s still a lot more work to be done. But you look at some of these companies and they’re making significant progress quickly and they’re like, you’ll see these super majors are testing out like 15 different methane detection technologies at the same time so they can decide what the best methodology is for for like mitigating methane leaks. They’re moving faster than the EPA can. Like the EPA’s encouraging the use of these new technologies because today, like, if you want to monitor a pad, you have to go out there on foot and use like a Ojai camera or gas sniffer. But their with this new proposal, they want to encourage the use of alternative technology. So continuous monitoring, aerial flyovers, satellite flyovers, they’re giving like a matrix where instead of doing this many on the ground surveys, you can do this many aerial flyovers as long as it has this detection threshold. So I think we’re going to continue to see a lot of movement in the methane monitoring space. I see personally, I see a lot of opportunity for the aerial flyovers because you can group together with multiple operators that are all in the same area and then just have one fly. You don’t all have to have a plane flying over. They can just work together as like almost like a consortium of tracking coal. And they’re doing that in the Northeast. I can’t remember the name of it off the top of my head, but they’re putting together like a group of operators that want to go in the same branching together as like a group effort to change the narrative around gas production where where the upstream emissions aren’t the problem. Now you just have to focus on downstream emissions when you’re burning it.
Stuart Turley [00:24:58] If the goal if you remember the name John after we recorded his podcast, shoot it to me and I. Put it in the show notes because that would be fantastic. You know, we re we transcribe these and put them out there. So I want to make sure that that data point is out there for folks. People actually listen to the podcast. John So yeah, it’s kind of cool. Yeah.
John Gutentag [00:25:25] I just looked it up. It’s AMI So Appalachian Methane Initiative.
Stuart Turley [00:25:30] Okay, great. Yeah, we’ll have that in the show notes. Okay. Awesome. John, this was absolutely fabulous. This was your. I’m going to do some pencil inside baseball for you. This was your second podcast, right? Mm hmm. Okay. Your first one was a horrible experience with me on the other one, right?
John Gutentag [00:25:49] It was. It was a good experience or a good time to do a fantastic.
Stuart Turley [00:25:53] But I tell you what, I really appreciate you. And in various cause madness. This was a great one. And with good and new information that I truly enjoyed, I mean, the the oil and gas space is doing great on this. And without having the ESG component of this, there are other products out there that are allowing for ESG to be monitored and financially projected and everything else. And they use a lot of your data. And also there are some great stuff out there. And I love the change the oil and gas space is making. I just want to give a shout out to Nick de Ellis. He’s the CEO over at CNN Resources up in the at Appalachian. I just released his podcast in as a an alternative in the Appalachia in up there he he’s looking at producing LNG or compressed natural gas at the wellhead I’m like because they can’t get a pipeline in there There’s some that have enough pressure. That’s pretty cool.
John Gutentag [00:27:04] Yeah, that is pretty cool. It’s pretty. It’s pretty. I don’t know what’s the right word. I’m trying to think of the right word, but it’s like a pretty cool change to see, like how, how, how these operators are approaching these problems and coming up with unique solutions that have never been reached before.
Stuart Turley [00:27:20] You know, neck is a true industry thought leader. And the fact that CNN is a publicly traded company is now thinking forward. That’s only one example of the great energy tech that’s coming around the corner. We’re coming up to the end of time here Now, John, what are you seeing coming around the corner for Energy Tech? Because in your next report coming out, I’m sure you’re going to take some of that into consideration and some other stuff. What do you see coming around the corner.
John Gutentag [00:27:50] Related to emissions? I definitely see a lot of satellites launching, so this carbon mapper and methane set. So those will give pretty granular information on methane emissions from satellites, whereas today any publicly available data for satellites is pretty coarse. There are some private ones up in the air like she sat that are very fine resolution, but that gives good widespread views of methane. And then what’s it called? Another one would be aerial flyovers. I see a lot of opportunity there, like I mentioned, where groups of operators can go together to go in on aerial flyovers, a lot of opportunity in a continuous monitoring space. There’s a project canary, there’s a long path technologies. They have a cool technology where it’s a tall tower with a laser and it scans like a couple mile radius of all the pads in the area. So you set up each pad these high, these mirrors, and then there’s a laser that tracks methane. So it’s not you have to have sensors on every pad. There’s like one central sensor, which I thought was pretty unique, but there’s a lot of a lot of the technology is on methane, though, like how to find the super emitter events that we call it, the known unknown. They don’t necessarily get reported every time, so they’re not included in report of the emissions. But we know they’re happening. And there’s a lot of a lot of focus on preventing that. So I think I think the technology in the methane spaces is very exciting there.
Stuart Turley [00:29:14] So what’s on the we talked, John, about the next steps personally for you. Keep working hard and keep keep getting after it so you can move up and be CEO of Enverus like is it a week that’s your plan.
John Gutentag [00:29:29] Not not a week or not. That’s it. But that’s the end goal one day.
Stuart Turley [00:29:34] Sounds fantastic. Well, John, thank you so much for stopping by and we’ll have all your contact information in the show notes and I just really appreciate you. That was a lot of fun.
John Gutentag [00:29:44] Yeah. Thanks to you. I had a good time too.
