Ben Samuels, President, Source Rock Midstream stopped by the Energy News Beat (ENB) podcast. Just to set this one up, Ben and I have been talking smack with Ryan Ray on social media and have an absolute blast.
We cover water in the Permian, apathetic behavior the resulting damaging aspect, and human rights. We also agree that ESG should not be even talked about unless there are accountability standards in place. Companies like Source Rock Midstream take ESG very seriously.
Now I have to admit that Ben’s great talking points even caused me to have a moment of reflection about myself. Seeing people being harmed and or discriminated about has two different kinds of witnesses. Those that watch on the sideline, and those that step in and protect the victims. I can tell you that personally after being in several life or death situations, immediate action defending people is my reaction. Not everyone will react in the same way. Ben brings up some great points about discrimination and even the holocaust.
Thank you Ben for stopping by the ENB podcast. (Ryan, you may not want to listen to this as you are the Butt end of a lot of jokes. Ben and I cracked ourselves up. Pun)
Connect and follow Ben at his LinkedIn Here.
The following is an automated transcription, and we disavow any mistakes unless they make us smarter or funnier.
Stuart Turley: [00:00:04] Okay. Hey, Welcome, Everybody, to the Energy News Beat podcast. My name is Stu Turley, president and CEO of the Sandstone Group. And we got a special treat today. I mean, we’ve got our guest extraordinaire. [00:00:18][14.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:00:20] We got V, Ben Samuels. I’d like to read his resume here and I’m going to show our folks on YouTube it’s like a pedigree I mean, Ben is the pedigree. Ben Samuels, welcome and thank you for stopping by the podcast. [00:00:36][16.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:00:37] Absolutely. Still looking forward to our conversation today. I really appreciate you having me on tho you and I have been connected for quite some time and have enjoyed some banter across a number of different social media platforms and I’m looking forward to the show today. It’s going to be good. [00:00:50][13.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:00:51] I got a I got to tell folks, you’re a podcast extraordinaire, video host,. [00:00:59][7.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:00] And you had trouble technology wise just getting on the show. I’m sorry, I got to brag here we were like talking smack on you before you even started it. [00:01:11][11.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:01:12] It happens. You know, blame, blame, Zoom, blame Apple one of those it could it couldn’t be me, right? Oh, no, no. [00:01:18][5.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:19] No. Is that toilet paper on the top of your your desk? [00:01:22][3.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:01:23] Oh, paper towels yeah I was cleaning for you still I was. I was doing a little bit cleaning for you. I guess I should push it off off camera. [00:01:31][7.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:32] I’m sorry. Not right. I want to tell my listeners as well they all know Ryan Ray. [00:01:36][4.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:37] And you and I talk smack affect our tweets we’re going off crazy with our smack talk on Twitter. And and so Ryan Ray is from Texas and he can’t pronounce well, he pronounces it wey. [00:01:53][16.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:54] And one time I want to share with my folks. One time you were interviewing Ryan and his desk started coming up and you had some music playing and he froze. [00:02:08][14.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:02:09] So his desk sucked all the powder out of Texas ERCOT system and just took the whole thing down and you were really good you just kind of went right on about your business. [00:02:20][10.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:02:22] I mean, listen, you know, Ryan, Ryan’s going to throw the curve balls all the time, whether he knows it or not and so, yeah, you got to listen. If you’re going to be on a podcast with Ryan, as you know, you’ve got to be ready for anything you’ve got to be ready to take whatever comes at you. [00:02:33][11.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:02:34] Well, let’s let’s back up just a bit. Tell us a little bit about men. SAMUELS You’ve got you’re the president at Sauce Rock Midstream. Tell us what’s going on there. [00:02:45][11.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:02:47] Yeah. So I’m originally from Houston, but not in Midland for about eight years now. On the back of the post VA over a small school in Colorado,. [00:02:54][7.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:02:55] Started my career in minerals out here and ran a fund for a couple of years. In the last couple. In the last couple of years, I’ve been more focused on the surface and the oilfield water side of the space side of the business. [00:03:07][11.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:03:08] And so it’s sort of shrunk midstream is focused on is we’re on the water midstream side of the business and we were running projects everywhere from saltwater disposal wells to water transfer and treatment and we have a number of we’ve got a number of assets in play here. [00:03:23][15.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:03:24] The preeminent flagship property for us is up in actually Texas brewing we’re not familiar with the Permian Basin. It’s about an hour northeast of Midland. It’s a very small town we’ve got about 1500 acres that we’re currently developing, again with some of that oil salt water development. [00:03:40][16.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:03:40] And, you know, it’s it’s a great it’s a great time in the market in that space in the sense that, you know, for years now due to the oil and gas industry has you know, we’ve known that produce water was an issue we’ve known that there needed, you know, needed to be a solution. [00:03:55][14.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:03:56] But there didn’t seem to be any major drivers to actually finding the solution and banking those problems and moving those into your into use case into deployment. [00:04:05][8.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:04:06] And so we really took the bull by the horns about two years ago when we acquired this property and we decided that we wanted to be sort of on the leading edge of that and so we’ve pushed the needle there. [00:04:15][9.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:04:16] We’ve had a number of pilot programs that have been facilitated, you know, under under us on the property and we’re doing things of that nature, you know, step by step, trying to trying to make a foothold in really well,. [00:04:28][12.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:04:28] I think we’re on the cusp of the first water business changing model, maybe not a 90 degree shift, but but shifting diametrically comparative to what it’s been in the last 20 years and I think we’re you know, source rock is in a really good spot to be, you know, part of that conversation. [00:04:43][14.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:04:44] Then and now. Everything you lead led right up to it but you didn’t left the word ESG out and taking care of the water and and everything else. [00:04:54][10.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:04:54] Tell us a little bit about source Rock and ESG, because it you’re right up in there with that. [00:05:00][5.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:05:02] No, it’s a great question, Stu, and I’ll be honest with you. One of the things that that I struggle with right now as the Joe’s, the proprietor and owner of this entity, is is that conversation. I’ll make it. I’ll try to make it brief for us here. You know, when. [00:05:17][15.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:05:18] You do brief. Right. [00:05:20][2.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:05:20] Right. Exactly. Believe me, I know. You know, when I think of and when I when I talk about ESG and when I think of the conversations that I’m having, you know, at the end of the day, Stu, I think it has become more of a buzz word and more of a thing to put on an S-1 and something you talked about to your stakeholders rather than something that is actually driving operational change. [00:05:45][24.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:05:46] And so and because of that, you know, I’m yeah, I could sit here and tell you that we are, you know, focused on ESG and that’s our you know, that’s our main core vision. [00:05:55][8.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:05:56] But but I think that’s disingenuous in the sense that, you know, the way that I come at this business and the way that I have framed source Rock is that we are in a position to be a landowner advocate as a landlord, owner of this properties,. [00:06:09][12.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:06:10] And we are in a position to drive the conversation in a way that actually results in tangible change on a ground level rather than just talking about it in my S-1 that I filed with the IRS. [00:06:21][11.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:06:22] And so so I think those are fundamental differences in the sense that what I guess what I’m telling you is that I’m trying to be about the action rather than about the talk and so I’ve been about I’ve been to I’ve been to half a dozen or plus conferences in the last 18 months or two years that have basically the entire agenda was ESG, ESG, ESG. [00:06:42][20.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:06:42] And by and large, the response from the crowd and response from the groups was, yeah, you know, until the federal government gives us grant dollars, why would we do that? Until it makes sense for the balance sheet why are we going to do that? You know, until, you know,. [00:06:55][12.5]
Ben Samuels: [00:06:55] Unless the stakeholders demand that we’re that we need to do that, why are we going to do that? None of those reasons have anything to do with the preservation of the resource, the, you know, the beneficial reuse of the resource. [00:07:05][10.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:07:06] None of those things have to do with the actions taken. It’s it’s a capital driven conversation and if you hear the frustration in my voice, it’s because it is frustrating for someone from my seat to be in the industry in in a position that I’m in these capital rooms, you know, the capital groups. I’ve got really strong connection to the finance side. [00:07:23][17.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:07:24] But I also have, you know, tangible assets that are sitting out on property and I saw I have the operator focus as well and the dichotomy of those conversations is, is it is infuriating to a degree so much so I’ll kind of out myself here you’re the crowd the Civic conference wasn’t very big but about. [00:07:42][18.5]
Ben Samuels: [00:07:43] I think it was in September how much I’m already with September there is an oil for water connection conference in in Dallas and I went and you know, those conferences are fantastic. [00:07:53][10.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:07:55] There was about 150 people in the room, give or take, and there was a panel discussion. And basically we were talking about ESG and I, I had a, you know, a condensed question, but I basically framed what I just said now to you in a question of, you know,. [00:08:10][15.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:08:10] Is the industry going to continue to talk about this as though we actually care, even though what we’re waiting for is, you know, 45 Q or some other sort of regulatory or or tax incentive or are we going to can you talk about this or does the industry actually care about creating solutions to the problem? [00:08:25][15.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:08:26] And I’ll tell you Stu I’ll tell you, Stu, there was a panel of four people and I asked this question. I actually asked it twice over two days in different ways through different panels. [00:08:34][7.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:08:35] Every single person on the panel punted the question they didn’t even want to answer it and here’s the kicker. Here’s here’s the here’s the real kicker. [00:08:43][8.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:08:44] Right? [00:08:44][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:08:45] Again, I’m sort of outing myself. But on the panel, there were seven total of the two panels. Three of those seven people I had known previously and so there was some sort of relationship,. [00:08:53][8.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:08:53] But three of the seven pulled me aside afterwards or some sort on the side and been like, you know, here’s the real answer to your question. Here’s what I would do. Here’s what I would have said if I wasn’t sitting in front of 150 people. [00:09:04][10.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:09:04] And I think my problem here is do and I’m putting myself out there, I guess. But I think my problem a lot of times is, you know,. [00:09:11][6.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:09:11] If you can’t and I don’t mean you, but if an operator can’t sit in front of 150 industry professionals and give a candid, raw answer, when are you ever going to hear it? [00:09:22][10.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:09:22] Exactly. And I think there’s a couple you brought up about 17 good points and I don’t mean to compliment you because I know Ryan never does,. [00:09:30][7.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:09:32] But I don’t believe that ESG there’s a couple of things and I Ben, I’m going to wrap myself out I threw this at you and you got out of your chair physically, you got lean forward and I watched enough of your stuff you just started rolling so I knew where your goat was tied up and I just kind of thing. [00:09:54][21.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:09:55] Okay. So I don’t feel that ESG should even be spoken without accountability and . You hit every single one of my hot buttons that you’re real and that you’re taking it seriously and I loved that. [00:10:10][15.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:10:10] I didn’t know the aspect. If I did, I didn’t remember, which is normal for me and that is about your land ownership piece of it as well. [00:10:19][8.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:10:19] And having the water is one of the most critical problems out there in the Permian. I mean, it is huge and so this is really important and when you take a look at that and you’re cross between finance, ESG and oil is huge. [00:10:39][19.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:10:41] Absolutely. Yeah. I’m in an interesting position, like I said. I mean, I think that going back to something you said early on in the show today, you know, I’m very much of and I think it’s. [00:10:50][9.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:10:50] I think this word sort of comes with some negative connotation sometimes but I’m very much of a generalist. I try to stay pretty broad in my, you know, understanding of things and where I sit and so I you know, by virtue of that, yeah,. [00:11:03][12.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:11:03] I’ve got, you know, really good understanding of what happens on the capital side. I do a lot of advisory on that. I’ve done transactional advisory both on acquisition and divestiture, raising capital, selling businesses, buying businesses. I’ve been sort of at all those tables. And so I understand, you know, how all that all that works. [00:11:20][17.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:11:21] And then on the other side, you know, we now own this asset and I’m looking at it from the landowner and operations perspective it’s something that, you know, that we we can talk about, you know, if you’d like to or not. [00:11:32][11.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:11:32] But, you know, as a side passion, I guess I would say, you know, personally, I own about somewhere between 12 and 15,000 acres of surface, you know, across the country in a number of different areas for a number of different reasons. [00:11:45][12.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:11:46] But the reason I bring that up is because your land is something that I very, very fundamentally appreciate, value and understand and so I can sort of see I see it differently than most. [00:11:57][11.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:11:58] And the reason and I use my words carefully there a few minutes ago when I said landowner advocate and what I mean by that is especially out here in the Permian, Stu. [00:12:05][7.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:12:05] I think that most of the oil and gas operators, a lot of them have this mentality of I’m going to do what I want to do, and as long as I can write a check big enough, I can get it done. [00:12:14][8.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:12:15] And I’ll tell you, there have been a couple of times in the last two years as the landowner of this accurately asset of the surface asset that we have under source rock that an operator has come to me with. Hey, you know, one of them I’ll speak to is typically. [00:12:28][13.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:12:29] We were approached by an operator that was looking to an electrify a pad that was about a mile off of our property where we are logistically, we sit on top of the city and so we have the we have the power, the city power, we have the muni power running directly through us. [00:12:43][14.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:12:43] And so the operator came to us and basically said, Hey, we want to build an overhead power line from here to here and we want to pay you X And the and the X was nominally more than right of way costs. [00:12:54][10.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:12:55] Right. [00:12:55][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:12:55] And so, you know, I very politely. Long story short, I very politely was like, no that’s just not of interest they they continue to offer more and more and eventually you know it came down to it’s just not going to happen. [00:13:10][14.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:13:10] You know if you want to go to my neighbor, if you want to go up the street or you want to go around me, that’s that’s that’s happened but you’re not going to get it from here and I don’t think they ever were able to get it done. [00:13:19][8.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:13:19] And the reason I say it that way is because I think most landowners either wouldn’t understand enough and they would just sign it and just be like, Oh, I’m getting X number of dollars. Cool. I’ll take the check. [00:13:28][8.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:13:28] And they wouldn’t understand the value there and the other side of that is that I think that the operators have become I think they’ve become focused on, you know, the we have to cut corners and where’s the easiest corner to cut? [00:13:41][12.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:13:41] The easiest corner to cut is if you can get your land acquisition costs down and I think at the end of the day, the landowner is by and large boholden to, you know, to that in a lot of ways because like if you’re the surface owner and you don’t own your minerals,. [00:13:54][13.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:13:55] Right? [00:13:55][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:13:56] Operator you know, if the operator can do a lot without your consent, without your say. And so I think the landowner in general has sort of been conditioned that, you know, I don’t have control over this. I have to just take the money and, you know,. [00:14:09][13.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:14:10] And so I’ve taken a different seat. And that’s why I say that I’m looking at this from a very fundamentally different perspective. [00:14:15][5.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:14:17] So as a landowner, we know that rigs, if if a bad operator comes in, a bad operator is not ESG friendly, needless to say. [00:14:31][14.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:14:32] But a bad operator can make a mess and so is that what you were going after by not giving them a right away in in excess on that? Do you know the operator? [00:14:42][10.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:14:44] I do. And so specifically to this specific proposal, the reason that we weren’t comfortable with the the proposal is because the the overhead power line was going to be running over the property in an area that we are not currently developing but is a prime piece of property. [00:15:02][17.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:15:02] And we were not sure about the potential implications of having that power line over the property. And so it was simply an unknown, unquantifiable risk that we decided that. [00:15:11][8.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:15:12] Which makes it. [00:15:12][0.5]
Ben Samuels: [00:15:12] Wasn’t worth putting together and so if the power line had been on like a different part of the property or something else, it may have made sense but given given what we’re trying to do here on this on this acreage, it just it just wasn’t for the amount of money that we were talking about. [00:15:26][13.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:15:26] Okay, that’s great, because that was not a Ryan Ray request, because Ryan, you know, you just say no. And, you know, but this was more of a business request. [00:15:35][8.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:15:36] And, you know, I’d say no, just to have some fun with Ryan, especially when he was trying to cook some of those snakes that look like a foot. Good point. [00:15:43][7.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:15:45] I tell Ryan all this I told Ryan all the time just just to hear his response. So I’m with you. [00:15:49][4.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:15:49] Oh, he squeaks. I mean it. So fun to hear him squeak and you have this unconditional love for him to be able to go whack like a whack a mole. He pops up over here and you whack him again, you know, and everything. So anyway, if anybody doesn’t get to see you to bounce around. [00:16:08][18.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:16:09] And then I have so much fun popping in and just being a squirrel, especially on Ryan’s kind of stuff and just being a stupid idiot. OnLive, you know, I’m hammering away and Ryan, I saw him the other day. Then he goes, Stu’s on again. [00:16:24][15.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:16:29] So anyway, back, back to this and everything else, you’re experiencing this you also bring up so many social kind of things in your stuff. [00:16:39][9.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:16:39] You’re not just oil and gas. Yeah. I mean, tell me about how how did you spin off from source rock water, being knowledgeable in finance and oil and then you’re off and I’m sitting here. I cut you guys a while ago on this and I was like, hey, you know, oil and gas, Where are you going with this? [00:16:57][18.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:16:59] Absolutely. Yeah. Going back to something I said a couple of seconds ago, I’m very much more of a generalist is more of some, you know, somewhat of a renaissance man in the sense that. [00:17:07][8.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:17:07] I’ve got a really broad interest base as i grow up. I was born into a very entrepreneurial you know, go get them, you freethinking family so that model was taught to me from a very, very young age and so that, you know,. [00:17:22][14.5]
Ben Samuels: [00:17:22] That ability to think critically and synthesize information quickly and those sort of things were skills that I just sort of picked up innately from my childhood in my family and so super fortunate from that perspective. [00:17:34][12.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:17:35] In response to some of the specifics, you know, the the political and sort of the geopolitical interests Stu, it really at the end of the day, it comes from I’ll make it really simple it comes from. [00:17:46][10.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:17:47] So culturally in my background, I’m actually I’m Jewish on both sides of my family tree and as we know, the Jews went through the Holocaust in the forties, and I’ve done a lot of research around that time around sort of the, you know, the preceding years and what led up to it. [00:18:04][17.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:18:04] And one of the things that I have been fascinated by since, you know, since really childhood when I really started to learn about the Holocaust is what’s called the bystander effect. [00:18:12][7.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:18:13] And what the bystander effect is in brief is, you know, in that context of your 1930s, Germany, there were millions of people in Germany at the time that had no real stake in defending the Jews or doing anything to fix the problem and so they were just sort of by standing and watching it happen. [00:18:30][17.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:18:31] And there’s no there’s no compulsive nature to, you know, if you see something, you must you must act. Right. And so there was this bystander effect of, oh, it’s not that bad, or maybe they’ve done something to deserve it or or those sort of thing. [00:18:44][12.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:18:44] And and then, you know, the Holocaust transpired. And I’m a firm believer that if there had been some some forethought of, you know, what are we seeing in the preamble to the Holocaust, maybe we should shut this down, that maybe the problem wouldn’t have been as bad and I know that’s a really aggressive example. So let me let me rephrase. [00:19:02][17.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:19:02] But it’s factual, then. It’s factual. [00:19:04][1.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:19:05] It is. But and the reason I say reframe it is because if you if we look at where we are today, I, I firmly believe that. [00:19:12][6.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:19:13] My duty as an American is to be in the know of what’s going on, be aware of what my government is trying to do, and be a voice of what I consider to be reason. [00:19:23][10.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:19:24] And the reason I say it that way is because there’s a lot of things that, you know, move back up for a second. [00:19:30][5.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:19:31] My thesis on government, especially in this country, is I want I want a federal government that protects my international borders and builds roads and infrastructure and basically everything else is left to the states and the states do a very, very little and then everything else is left to the individual. That’s sort of my ethos when I think about rights. [00:19:49][18.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:19:50] And so the fifth that we have seen, you know, towards I mean, now, you know, you’re having people that are educated academics on Twitter being deplatformed because of because speaking to facts, you have people across across the spectrum being deplatformed or cancel culture because because they’re not speaking to what the powers that be want them to be speaking to. And I think that’s a really dangerous dynamic. [00:20:15][25.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:20:16] And, you know, do I think that we’re do I don’t know still what a 20, 20, 2030s, world world World War Three looks like? I don’t know what that sort of new iteration of a world. [00:20:26][10.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:20:26] Right. [00:20:26][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:20:26] Is but if we you but I’m firm belief that we’re we’re I mean you see it globally it’s not just in America you know the people of the world have become aware that the governments are playing an end game that I don’t think the people are okay with. [00:20:40][14.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:20:41] And I think that unfortunately, unfortunately, what what I see, by and large, the people in this country that understand the problems and understand the dangers are generally the intellectuals. [00:20:54][13.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:20:55] And here’s the problem. Generally, those folks generally decide, oh, I can’t be bothered with that, cause that’s going to mess with my mental sanity and I just I decide to ignore it and like, I don’t have control over that and so you sort of take a hands off approach of like, oh, I can’t really engage. [00:21:10][15.4]
[00:21:11] And so and when you when you do that, what happens is the politicians just get to take all the they get to put their hand on the honey pot and take take all that, you know, take that away from you. [00:21:21][9.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:21:21] And so I think it’s an important perspective and dynamic in America that we need to I’m a firm believer that we need to be protecting our freedoms from the government. [00:21:29][8.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:21:30] That the government is has put themselves on the other side of the aisle from the populace and I and I want to speak to that and that’s that’s really that’s what it comes down to. [00:21:38][8.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:21:39] Oh, yeah. And I love your your thought process. I I’m I’m also a big advocate for there’s a couple of people in the world I got about 16 box to give, because of everything you just said,. [00:21:52][13.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:21:55] There are people that will get involved and there are people that will not and and if you haven’t been in the situation where life is on the line or people are doing harm to anybody, and you don’t step in either you don’t know how or you’re not even processing what’s going on. [00:22:18][23.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:22:19] But I have been there and that’s a good pun. Been there and and you sit back and go, Wait a minute, that person’s getting harmed by somebody else. [00:22:29][10.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:22:30] I have stepped in multiple times. I am not a guy to sit on the sideline when somebody is being Racially profiled. Religious profile. [00:22:40][9.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:22:41] I don’t care who you are. If you’re a human being, that’s the number one person. If you’re a human, you deserve to be regardless of race, creed, color or anything else and I’ve been there. [00:22:54][12.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:22:55] What you just said is phenomenal, especially from a government standpoint, and you also said something else. There’s a great awakening happening. [00:23:06][11.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:07] I’ve been watching around the world. People are tired of governments hiding stuff. I think there’s a great awakening coming. [00:23:17][10.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:23:19] I think so, too. And like I said, I don’t really know what that what that new world, you know, version looks like because, you know, in the last time we had a world War and the one before that, you know, we were in a fundamentally different, you know, world in terms of capabilities and etc.. [00:23:34][14.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:34] Right. [00:23:34][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:23:34] And so I don’t know what that what that necessarily looks like, but what I you know what? It’s just I think it’s really important that. That we you know, that we’re aware that while we have freedoms in this country,. [00:23:45][10.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:23:46] I think we have seen in the last 20 to 24 months that those freedoms can be taken away at the whenever they decide. And the most the most I think the most impactful thing that I’ve picked up in the last two years and this might sound, you know, a little bit aggressive,. [00:24:02][15.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:24:02] But I think the most impactful thing that I picked up is in America when the government says jump there’s a lot of people in this country that will jump without even without question, without without thought and they will they will just jump. [00:24:15][12.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:24:15] And I think that that’s really dangerous. I think that as Americans, if the government says jump. Our duty is to say y or you don’t have the right to tell me to do that or, you know. [00:24:27][11.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:24:28] You know, we do not live in a country where we have to prescribe. We don’t live in North Korea. We don’t live in China. We don’t have we don’t live in a country where we have to strive for those things. [00:24:36][8.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:24:37] And I think what I’m saying is, is is, you know. [00:24:40][3.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:24:41] I think there’s very people who say it this way. I think it’s very peaceful ways to get to what I’m talking about. I’m not I’m not espousing violent or. [00:24:48][6.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:24:49] Yes. [00:24:49][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:24:50] I’m not talking about, you know, excuse I mean, you know, during the riots and all the crap that was happening last year, I mean, I was firmly on, you know, clearly on the on the anti side of that and so I think there’s appropriate ways to do this. [00:25:01][11.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:25:02] But but I think that we I think that we’re we’re walking into a scenario in a world where there’s enough of this country and these midterms are going to be really interesting because I think there’s enough of this country that’s woken up to that dynamic and. [00:25:14][11.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:25:16] You know, it’s going to be really interesting to see what happens in the next two years. [00:25:18][2.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:25:19] Oh, absolutely and buckle up. Get a flight suit on because it’s going to be some entertainment. [00:25:24][4.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:25:26] And and I do like the way you’re going with this and I also want to take it one step further. [00:25:30][4.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:25:31] I thoroughly enjoy visiting with people from Hindu, Buddhist from Muslim, Jewish. I love talking theology no matter what religion you are and I love talking about those kind of things. [00:25:51][20.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:25:52] You can’t discriminate based on opinions or religion. You can discriminate based on stupidity. So I think that that is, you know, it should be, you know, age. You know, you can’t discriminate, but you can discriminate based on stupidity. So sorry. [00:26:06][14.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:26:07] You know, it’s interesting you say that because, you know, so what I would say in response there is one of the things that the left has done. To some degree of success, I guess, is. [00:26:19][11.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:26:19] They have made it so that there is an appropriate there’s a right answer to questions now. There’s a right thing to think, the right thing to say. There’s there’s a right and wrong way to to live. [00:26:30][11.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:26:31] And I think that’s really dangerous and so when you when you say something about stupidity, I think that the danger there is that people that as an as an example, there are some people that believe that ivermectin should be able to be used as medicine or like if I want to take ivermectin for COVID, I should be able to do that. [00:26:46][14.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:26:46] And someone on the left would call that stupid. Now, is that stupid? I don’t know. It comes down to it comes down to how you define the word right. [00:26:52][6.5]
Ben Samuels: [00:26:53] And that’s what I say when you say you can discriminate on soup based on stupidity unfortunately, I think a lot of people reporting that they’re doing that right because they will tell they would if I if I decided that I. [00:27:03][10.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:27:03] Hadn’t thought of it that way. From either side, you can discriminate based on stupidity depending on your outlook. I am an idiot that you know. Hey, great point then. [00:27:14][11.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:27:17] I mean, the objectiveness of that whole of that whole dynamic is. Yeah. Oh, you can, you can paint the other side however you want, right? [00:27:22][5.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:27:23] Oh, my goodness. I’m an idiot. I’m going to go just, you know, hit my head with a hammer here in a minute that was a great point, man. Ouch. Truth hurts, man. [00:27:34][10.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:27:34] But why can’t we talk about things? You know, that’s what I enjoy is having the discussions on religion, understanding why things happen and having a great world discussion. [00:27:48][13.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:27:49] I think Americans are very one sided we don’t have multiple language. You know, you visit from folks from Europe. They know four or five languages. [00:27:59][10.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:28:01] I had the pleasure of interviewing a RINO, a slob from Bulgaria, and she’s, you know, a very well-known energy expert, thoroughly enjoying the conversation. [00:28:12][10.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:28:13] And I have to tell you, I did a Putin imitation, a very bad one with her and she goes, Putin’s a very nice man and you’re you’re imitations very bad. [00:28:22][8.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:28:23] So, you know, I am a lousy Putin imitation but Americans don’t have the international understanding. We need to understand more. [00:28:36][13.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:28:38] We as Americans and I don’t. Do you? Yeah, you’ve got me. You’re this is a different corner than I usually sit in but yo,, [00:28:44][6.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:28:45] Americans. I think we have developed the audacity to believe that we are the best at everything, the best in everything and we lead the world in such an aggressive manner that we don’t need to interface with the rest of it [00:28:58][13.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:28:59] And in a way, what I mean by that is if you are if you live in I’ll use your example. If you live in Russia and you are. If you’re one of the people that is not subscribed to the machine and you’re trying to make a better life for yourself,. [00:29:12][13.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:29:13] Right,. [00:29:13][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:29:14] You’re going you’re going to learn English like you’re you’re going to know English probably better than most Americans. Not only that, not only that, though, in the curriculum and I actually I dated a. [00:29:23][9.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:29:24] I had a girlfriend for a number of years a few years back and she was she was born in Moscow, lived in Russia until she was 22 and then moved to the states to to come to school here and so she lived in sort of both both arenas for a while. And she you know, to your point, she was fluent in four languages,. [00:29:39][15.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:29:40] But they not only had to learn English in school, they had to learn another language so they know Russian. Obviously, they have to learn English. And there they are, mandatory they have to learn a third one. [00:29:48][8.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:29:49] And in this country, most of the time, if you like, if you graduate college with a loose understanding of English, like that’s the win. [00:29:55][6.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:29:57] I still can’t spell. You know, and your point is well taken on that. Neither. [00:30:02][5.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:30:03] Neither can Ryan. It’s okay. [00:30:04][1.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:30:04] Oh, smack down. Now, I did graduate from Oklahoma State University, so I do have that going against me. So ahm.. [00:30:12][7.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:30:13] But, you know, Ryan, I mean, Ryan, I got Ryan on a brain bend. You can just leave this podcast right now and I apologize. But… [00:30:22][9.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:30:24] When we talk about we’ve really kind of wrapped around the energy, we wrapped around how important energy is to social and now we’re going to come back into this energy crisis we only have about another 5 minutes and I know you get it tremendously busy schedule and I am so grateful for your time. [00:30:43][18.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:30:44] But we’ve had the energy. Yeah, we’ve had the ESG. We’re in an energy crisis right now and COP26, they said, you know, oh, by the way, new natural gas and nuclear are now green and so it’s now available for funding. [00:31:06][23.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:07] And then the infrastructure bill had very quietly put in there that natural gas is available for funding under the infrastructure bill and I’m like, hey, is anybody else in the world saying that they’re sneaking the narrative in there because the renewable side has failed and is caused? [00:31:26][18.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:27] It’s one of the primary reasons that we’re having inflation. It’s one of the primary reasons that the cost of kilowatt per hour has gone up because of the bad energy policies where I’m going with this is. [00:31:38][11.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:40] What is that Ben Samuel’s thought process for energy coming around in 2020 to put your your I hate to say I like your outlook on life and things going on what your crystal ball for energy and oil and gas for 2022. [00:31:56][15.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:31:58] So, you know, in the next 12 months, you know, I think it’s a really interesting 12 months in the sense that we’ve got a lot of sort of outside factors that I think are going to dominate that conversation. You know,. [00:32:08][10.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:32:08] I think one of the things that people are not talking much about, but I do think it’s going to have a big difference and a big impact, I should say, just because of the way the seat the Texas has is, you know,. [00:32:19][10.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:32:19] The railroad commissioner seat elections that are up this year and if that if that were to fundamentally change the dynamic of that board, that the rural commission in Texas has an unbelievable amount of power, I don’t think that people realize how much power that entity really does have. [00:32:34][14.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:32:35] And if the makeup of that board changes, I think that could have national implications on an on a massive scale and so that’s something I’m looking at very closely. [00:32:44][9.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:32:45] But the reason I also say that we’re in an interesting time is because we’re in a midterms year we’re in a year where both sides of the aisle are even more incentivized to maintain their base, to accrete power, to put to put things on the floor that their their constituents like all of those things. [00:33:01][16.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:33:02] And so, you know, when you talk about, you know, some of the things that came out of COP26 and some of the you know, a lot of that’s due, I would tell you, is virtue signaling a lot of that is placating the voter base. A lot of that is trying to trying to signal one thing. And then once you have your seat in power, then you do something else. [00:33:21][19.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:33:22] So I think there’s a lot of that going on in regards to nuclear and natural gas and and renewables. [00:33:27][5.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:33:29] I’m a firm believer that in I don’t know if it’s going to be in the next 12 months, but in the coming years we are going to have to find an equitable energy balance in this country and that means hydro, solar, wind, nuclear, natural gas, everything. It should be a very. [00:33:47][17.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:33:47] Small. [00:33:47][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:33:48] Use it all to the best of its currency. And, you know, the the dynamic that we have right now with the unbelievable amount of preferential treatment that the renewables are getting over some of these other lower costs. You know,. [00:34:02][14.2]
Ben Samuels: [00:34:03] I think that what that does is that artificially changes the market and, you know, if you have developers building a wind farm purely because of the tax credits, that doesn’t help anybody. It doesn’t have to that doesn’t help anybody. [00:34:16][12.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:34:17] And so I think that, you know, what we’re going to find is is what we’re going to see in the next 12 months. I think we’re going to see more of the conversation. [00:34:26][8.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:34:26] Look, Germany is in a world of hurt right now this winter is going to be brutal there’s places in the northeast of this country, in America, that I think are going to wake up in the next six months and realize that their governments have put themselves them, their own lives at risk of. [00:34:43][16.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:34:44] I think there’s major problems sort of on the cusp here you know, once once we go through this winter, I think that I think that there’s going to be a renewed sense of alarm and attention on this from a constituent level where, you know, when the next municipality that’s not like in Southern California,. [00:35:02][18.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:35:03] But when the next municipality, somewhere in the middle of the country says, we’re going to deplatform natural gas, You can’t you know, you can’t newbuild natural gas. I think that community is going to be like, no, no, that’s not no, that’s not going to happen. [00:35:14][11.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:35:16] And so I think those sort of things may start to percolate. I don’t think is going to happen in your timeline. I think, you know, the 12 months, that’s a pretty short timeline. Right. But I think that we’re going to start to see sort of the conversation move that direction. [00:35:27][11.5]
Ben Samuels: [00:35:28] And I think that may come to a precipice closer to like the 2024 presidential election. I think that, you know, during between now and then, because, you know,. [00:35:36][7.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:35:36] If we look at what Biden is trying to put together with the, you know, the energy infrastructure bill and all the stuff that they’re doing, if they accomplish a lot of that,. [00:35:44][7.7]
Ben Samuels: [00:35:44] When 2024 comes around, we may be in a situation where it’s, you know, for the sake of saving the country’s energy infrastructure, we we have to make a different decision rather than, you know, some of these other, you know, sort of virtue signaling things that are floating around. [00:35:58][14.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:35:59] Nice. I’ll tell you, I almost don’t like doing a podcast with you. And the reason is you start bringing out and saying this the right way. [00:36:10][10.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:36:11] You start bringing out all these kind of points and it throws me for a whole loop because now you’re hitting on all these kind of like, important topics and you tease me with all these in my brain, you know, A.D.D I go that way, but so I’m going to have to have you back. [00:36:27][16.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:36:27] And if you don’t mind, I really do want to have you back, Ben, because this to me was absolutely so much fun. [00:36:34][6.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:36:34] And I really respect you all of your Energizer bunny work that you do out there and I like your stance. [00:36:43][8.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:36:44] So thank you very much for coming on. I’m going to give you the last word. Give me a Ben font for the day. [00:36:50][5.9]
Ben Samuels: [00:36:52] I love that. We’ll do that. First of all, let me thank you for having me on. I really appreciate that. Your kind words. And hopefully you’ll hopefully, you know, you’ll have me on before you have Ryan on again. [00:37:00][8.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:37:03] Yes, absolutely. Because we got to he’s he’s like fighting in an armed opponent anyway. So it’s. [00:37:10][7.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:37:11] Like, yeah, your thought for the day. That’s that’s an interesting one. [00:37:15][4.1]
Ben Samuels: [00:37:17] You know, one of the things that I’ve been working on of recent is so for the last few years I’ve been focused on my LinkedIn presence and really building that platform, building that network and that’s been a really a main thrust of mine as you probably saw recently,. [00:37:29][12.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:37:30] I’ve been focusing a lot more on Twitter and putting putting that out and so one of the thoughts that I would put out there is, you know, in sort of in that iteration, in an iterative process, one of the things that I’ve noticed is in brief on LinkedIn to the community,. [00:37:44][14.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:37:45] I think has sort of turned into very virtue signaling and look at me and, you know, the selfies and and there’s not a lot of core really good granular or really good conversation on Twitter. It’s very different that, you know,. [00:37:57][12.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:37:57] The Twitter ecosystem ecosystem is very much driven towards adding value and in providing you’re providing good quality content. [00:38:04][6.4]
Ben Samuels: [00:38:05] And the reason you know, the reason I bring that up when you ask me that question is I think the start of the day is, you know, fine with your passion about figure out why you’re passionate about it and start to speak that out to the world and really exciting things happen. You know, I’m. [00:38:18][13.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:38:19] Nice!. [00:38:19][0.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:38:19] At my core, at my core, ultra introverted person. I don’t really need a lot of external externalities or extra motivation or interaction to to, you know, to be happy and to be fulfilled. [00:38:30][11.3]
Ben Samuels: [00:38:31] And so one of the things one of the ways that I’ve sort of reverse engineered that is becoming more of a social media presence and leaning into that. [00:38:39][7.6]
Ben Samuels: [00:38:40] But so, you know, I think that everybody sort of neo can find their tribe it doesn’t need you. You don’t need to be a Ryan Rae who just drifts and trips it to to find your you know, to find your way. [00:38:48][7.8]
Ben Samuels: [00:38:49] But, you know, there’s there’s so much available out there that you get a part of the conversation in one way or the other like I said, find what you’re passionate about and, you know, find your tribe. [00:38:58][8.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:38:59] I’ve been outstanding closing. I give you a hug, but man, it’s Covid. So, hey, thank you, Ben. And we will see everybody next time. [00:39:09][10.0]
Ben Samuels: [00:39:11] Sounds good. Thanks to. [00:39:11][0.0]
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