Does California Still Have Any Refineries? – ENB Weekly Recap

Highlights of the Podcast 

00:00 – Intro

00:14 – Update on the Chevron Refinery in California – A national security disaster just got worse as a possible drone strike

04:06 – AI Computing Demand: An Additional 55 GW of Power Capacity Required Globally by 2030

09:25 – Berkshire Hathaway Inc. to Acquire OxyChem: A Strategic Move in Energy and Chemicals

19:30 – OPEC+ Has Come Close to Its Limit, Leaving Prices Open to Spike

24:10 – The United States Has Begun Receiving Shipments of Tungsten, Straight from Rwanda, Bypassing China

26:41 – President Trump Approves a 211-Mile Road to Alaska’s Ambler Mining Distric31Outro

28:54- Outro

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Video Transcription edited for grammar. We disavow any errors unless they make us look better or smarter.

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Michael Tanner: [00:00:00] Does California have any refineries left? We’ll find out next on the Energy Newsbeat weekly recap. [00:00:06][6.2]

Stuart Turley: [00:00:14] Update on the Chevron refinery in California. A national security disaster just got worse as a possible drone strike. This is crazy. El Segundo refinery by Chevron, just located outside of Los Angeles, experienced a significant fire on October 2nd, drawing widespread attention due to its role in supplying critical fuels to Southern California. Michael, this is nuts. They supply about 40% of the jet fuel in the southern part of the state, and this is huge. Flames were visible from across the South Bay, prompting emergency responses from Chevron’s on-site fire brigade, local agencies, including teams from El Segundo and Manhattan Beach. The blaze produced large plumes of smoke, and I tell you what, this one caught my eye. A fire at the Chevron-El Segundo refinery, The most widely circulated theory today is that it was a strike by Venezuelan drones. Michael, this is a rumor. It is unverified, but what a mess. I’m not doing this for clickbait. I’m going, what if Gavin Newsom has destroyed California with its 20% of its refinery capacity already coming offline because of his over-regulation and wanting to just get rid of fossil fuels, he did it. And the fossil fuel companies are leaving the state in a national security problem. This is like, holy smokes, Batman. And if it is a drone strike, this is, are there drone strikes going to be in other parts of the country? This is a big deal. [00:01:57][103.2]

Michael Tanner: [00:01:58] No. So a couple of things. One, I’m, I have, you know, El Segundo is close to my heart. That’s where I was actually born. My dad got a work for Hughes aircraft before he ended up moving to Denver when, when we recommuted there. So I’m very, I was young, but my family, very familiar with that El Segando area and Hatten Beach is beautiful. I’m going to go out of limb here and say, I think there’s a better chance Gavin Newsome flew a drone into this refinery than Venezuela did. I just going to have a hard time grasping at that straw. This is Pretty interesting though, from the fact that this is one of the few refineries that is still working and supplying both jet fuel and other types of distillate fuel oil to California. So the fact, that now this goes down on top of stuff we covered multiple weeks ago with the Valera refinery shutting down and all the other energy related infrastructure that’s being closed down in California, solely to shift to some crazy wind energy, apology. It doesn’t allow you for these emergencies. It’s pretty crazy though to think about how much was activated here. We’re praying for everybody who is involved with this right now. Do we know if anybody was injured or dead with this? No, I have not seen [00:03:04][66.5]

Stuart Turley: [00:03:04] any deaths, which is fantastic, but the gasoline, the yield is 45% gasoline at a daily 110,000 barrels per day, 20% of Southern cow, jet fuel and diesel combined is 41% of it, 100,000 barrels per today, which has 40% of southern cows jet. So you’re, so yeah, that gas. [00:03:27][23.1]

Michael Tanner: [00:03:28] 20% of the gasoline in SoCal, California. You wanna have any idea what prices are gonna be there? [00:03:33][4.9]

Stuart Turley: [00:03:34] I’m trying to find out, Michael, anything I possibly can and it is weirdly quiet. I mean, it is weird trying to find out things on this. [00:03:45][10.5]

Michael Tanner: [00:03:45] So analysts are expecting prices right now, average gallon of gasoline in California, $4.64 as of October, that could rise somewhere between 15 to 30 cents, depending on the damage. I think that number’s low. I think it’s going to be between 50 and 75. And I wouldn’t be shocked if we see $6 gas for the next couple of days in certain parts of Southern California. [00:04:05][19.8]

Stuart Turley: [00:04:05] Absolutely. AI computing demand and additional 55 gigawatts of power capacity required globally by 2030. I think that number is low, Michael. The rapid expansion of our artificial intelligence, and in the words of Kamala Harris, AI is reshaping global energy landscapes with data center at the epicenter of transformation. According to the recent estimates from CTI, the surgeon AI computing demand will necessitate an additional 55 gigawatts of power capacity worldwide. I want to go out on a limb right here and say that it cannot be wind and solar because I’m seeing so many analysis out there that were maxed out on wind and solar due to the amount of cycles and amount of uptime and downtime and all this other of stuff. So this is a big one. Here comes a question. The question arises, will this 55 gigawatts additional fuel a 1.5 trillion wave of AI computing expenditure in the United States alone? The answer is that while the US will see substantial investments, the 1.50 trillion most closely reflects a global AI spending trends rather than the US specific. And I’ll tell you But you can almost sit back and say, if we never installed another wind farm, we would have absolutely all the wind that we could possibly do. Now, I did also go back and stay, what is the best list of companies to take as an investor? What am I gonna look at? And guess who piled in in the top? Williams Company. A major national gas operator, Williams stands to gain from increased gas transports as a midstream. And I’ve got them listed in there with their charts. So I’ve also got a list of all the other folks in here. I talked a little bit about small reactors, but Michael, SMRs and nuclear. Nuclear is on a fast track. Hats off to Secretary Chris Wright to try to get it done. None of the math is math enough that we’re going to have an impact of substantial gigawatt globally in the next 10 years in nuke. I don’t see it happening. It’s all coal or natural gas. [00:06:25][139.5]

Michael Tanner: [00:06:25] No, absolutely. And I think that 1.5 trillion number that’s just cloud infrastructure, software and data center expansions. You also have to point out that McKinsey estimates that worldwide data center investments that include energy systems to meet these compute demands could add up to they say 6.7 trillion. That’s with a trillion where they’re and where data centers in that scenario are expected to consume 9% of electricity by 2030. And Again, most of that is driven by AI-driven CapEx. It’s pretty unbelievable. I think on the AI side, you mentioned from an, you didn’t quite mention, I think, on the Ai side, where’s the best places to invest. I personally think, obviously, it’s hard as a private investor to invest in non-public companies, unless you’re getting some sort of allocation to open AI. And probably none of us are getting access to that. So, if you’re looking at some of the public companies like Microsoft and Google and Meta, I would probably put Microsoft and google at the top, put Meta somewhere down here. I mean, I think what they’re attempting to do is use AI to help with the social media part of it. And I do think with AI, the gains are going to be a lot more on where Microsoft and Google are heading, which is on the redistribution of search, gathering all that compute. So if you had to ask me from an AI perspective, I would probably say Google and Microsoft are probably most likely to take off. And obviously I think companies like Tesla who are going use AI to make their products better. They’ve obviously, I mean, have you seen some of the stuff? Not to do as little tangent here, but have you see Optimus, some of the videos that are coming out? Do you see him doing Kung Fu yesterday? That was, it’s kind of crazy. Here’s my question, Stu. Are you going to have an Optimus in your house? [00:08:07][101.7]

Stuart Turley: [00:08:07] No, because I’m a black belt, but I also know my limitations and I do not want to have anybody in the house that can beat me up. So I’m, if I have a feeling anybody could beat me up and I am not going to have anyone in there that A, I don’t trust Bill Gates, B, if it has anything to do with getting to the internet, Bill Gates would find a way to hack it and then beat me because he did not like the fact that I insulted him. [00:08:31][23.8]

Michael Tanner: [00:08:32] Wait, wait, wait. You have a personal history with Bill Gates? I’ve never heard that story before. [00:08:36][3.8]

Stuart Turley: [00:08:36] At the only time I’ve ever met the man, I shook his hand. I said, would you like to walk in and see how a real operating system works? And he got so mad. [00:08:44][8.2]

Michael Tanner: [00:08:46] That’s a joke. I think the podcast has heard that story about 20 times, but Optimus is an Elon Musk thing. So no, I’m just throwing it off there. It was funny to watch him do a bunch of that stuff. And I agree with you. I think on the energy side, you’ve got companies like Williams, I think EQT and a lot of these natural gas specific focused companies. I think you’re going to see a lot natural gas companies come into flavor here in a little bit from an AI standpoint. I’m going to go out on a limb and say, I wouldn’t be shocked if Elon Musk buys a natural gas company at some point, he buys an Athon Energy. If he comes in here and buys a large Haynesville natural gas producer, mainly so that he says to some of this natural gas pipe it right up to Colossus. So I think extremely interesting. The other deal we saw, and this was rumored and it ended up happening, Berkshire Hathaway went ahead and acquired Oxychem. And the structure of the deal was a little bit different when originally when the rumor was dropped, it was going to be a for a dollar to Berkshire Hathaway in so far as it would then cancel the preferred shares that Berkshire Hathway has. Remember, they own about 28.2% of Oxy, but some of that is in what are called preferred stock holdings, which are generating about 8% yield per year, which is obviously a lot higher than what Occidental is barely yielding. It’s about 10 billion of that, 28% or about 10 billion in preferred stock, which was basically used to finance the acquisition with also where there was a bunch of other warrants for shares. But this is mainly just a straight up stock or a straight-up cash deal. Well, Berkshire Hathaway purchases this for $10 billion in cash. Using some of that 344 billion of cash reserves, they’ve got, you know, this is basically the largest acquisition since They, since 2022, they made a purchase, $11.6 billion purchase of Allegheny, which is interesting. And I think what this does is really, this just cements Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway to more embed with Oxy. I think it’s more of a bet on Oxy than it is a, hey, let’s go out and try to generate some alpha somewhere else. I think this, what they’re saying is you can sell this to us. You can keep a lot of the infrastructure in place. Nothing can really change. It allows you to pay down some debt. It brings in another revenue stream for us. We still get to keep our preferred shares. I think that when they were trying to get rid of those preferred shares and they said, no, no. You’re going to keep sending me those interest payments every single year. And so I think the real next question is, okay, this is a debt reduction play. The real question is then what’s next for Oxy? And I think to big 20 pound gorilla in the room is Colorado. And I think you accurately pointed this out. What are they going to do with Colorado? Oxy is one of the larger and probably has the largest acreage position in Colorado relative to some of its other peers. Chevron has a big acreage position there. We all know Civitas and along with rising up and comer Prairie Operating. But Oxy, is a big, big, big player there. The problem is, and I think what’s holding up a sale of this is the regulatory environment there. It’s not easy working with the Colorado oil and gas commission, and specifically the EMCC, which is the environmental management commission control. I think it’s basically the air, you know, the air permitting and all that. And I think what it’s holding it up is you’ve got Chevron might be the only company that can afford to buy these assets. They’re not in, they’re not, they are not in on it. Obviously they’re trying to, they were selling their midstream assets for $2 billion. They’re are not necessarily interested in picking up this acreage. I don’t think there’s any other really player in Colorado that’s already there right now that can afford these assets? So it’s almost like you’re at the dance, but you don’t necessarily have a dance partner, but you can’t leave the dance because your mom and your dad left and are now going up to Black Hawk to do a little bit of gambling and they’re not back till 10 o’clock. So you’re just stuck there hanging out, having a little of juice, not quite sure what to do because no one is willing to buy. That’s a extremely good analogy, I think of what’s happening right here. What say you about Oxy in Colorado, Stu? [00:12:52][246.7]

Stuart Turley: [00:12:53] I think Vicki Holub is a very, very sharp cat. I think she is, if the government subsidies for net zero were to continue, she would have been holding out as brilliant, but because carbon capture is going the way of net zero in the United States, it is a cost, an additional cost to consumers and she may be revered as now not on the front runner. It is Colorado that is Oxy’s problem. It’s absolutely Colorado is a second only to California in horrific places to drill for oil and they’re doing a great job. If Coloradans could understand And what Gavin Newsom has done to California, they’re doing it to Colorado. And so they’ve turned all of that to absolute disaster. [00:13:52][59.0]

Michael Tanner: [00:13:53] Yeah. I think what Colorado has done is just, I don’t think they’ve stopped drilling. What they’ve done is they’ve made it to where only the large, large companies can do business in Colorado. You can’t be a startup and work and drill oil wells in Colorado, you can’t do that. But if you’re Oxy, you’re Chevron, you can because you have these expansive… It’s one of the things… People think regulations stop people from doing these. No, no, no. What regulations do is stop the small companies. What they do is big companies love regulations. Let’s be clear about that. Large organizations love regulations, why? Because it keeps new entrants out. It keeps new people from coming in and taking over their market share. So what you’ve done, Colorado, what they’ve tried to do is say, we’re going to help the little guy. We’re going to make sure that it’s easy to, we going to, make sure the rules are fair. We’re going make sure it’s really hard to get permits. And well, guess what? The rate of permits necessarily hasn’t slowed down. It’s become harder, but you’ve disproportionately given them all to the big companies, which is probably exactly what they didn’t want to happen. [00:14:59][66.3]

Stuart Turley: [00:14:59] I’m going to disagree with you and I’ll tell you why. Let’s go to California. California used to permit 4,000 to 3,000 Wells a year. They went down to 12. So when you can regulate everybody out, they have done that. And let me go check real quick. Let me go check how many permits did that Wells issue. Because when you and I were doing DI work for a couple of the DJ and working in the DJ, and had our thing, We went from a thousand or more permits to almost nothing. And I guarantee you, if we checked it, they have shot the drilling process and did not drilling. [00:15:39][40.0]

Michael Tanner: [00:15:40] Here’s the difference between Colorado and California. Even if California, you could permit in California, it’s not really some, there’s not enough oil reserves for people to get excited about. Colorado actually has oil reserves. And so I think the difference in your feedback is, if California… Yes, you can regulate something to zero. Obviously, that’s not what I’m saying, but I’m seeing what’s rolled out in Colorado is not that because the amount of permits is not zero. Trust me, we’ve got multiple clients, Stu, that pay us good money to evaluate deals. There’s a lot of drilling going on in Colorado, a lot a drilling going in Colorado. So, but what I’m saying is it’s all the big boys. It’s all big boys, it’s theoretically the people. If you are worried about big oil coming in and swooping up everything, well, guess what? When you regulate stuff where only big oil is the only game in town, you sometimes are, and so I’m just using it as a thing. People think regulations are good, but it really, yes, regulations can be good, but it disproportionately affects the small guy and the startups. And I look out for the startups [00:16:42][62.1]

Stuart Turley: [00:16:42] I think it’s great and I disagree, so we’re going to. [00:16:45][2.2]

Michael Tanner: [00:16:45] It’s we’re going to have some great fun. Luckily I’ve won this battle. As always guys, the news and analysis you just heard. Is brought to you by world’s greatest website, www.energynewsbeat.com. Stu and the team do a tremendous job making sure that website stays up to speed. Everything you need to know to be the tip of the spear when it comes to the energy and the oil and gas business. Go ahead and hit the links in the description below for all links to the timestamps, links to articles, and specifically subscribe to the show on YouTube, subscribe to this show on Apple iTunes. Give us a follow there. Subscribe to our show on Spotify. Please leave comments there and subscribe to our sub stack, www.energynewsbeat.substack.com. That’s probably the best place to support the show. Stu does a great job of releasing two to three articles a week that really encompass the big themes that are going on. We also drop all of our podcasts there, which give a little bit of a breakdown. We just had a great, great podcast. So I highly, highly recommend everybody subscribe to the energy newsbeat.sub stack.com We’d also like to thank friends of the show Reese Energy Consulting for supporting the show guys. Reese Energy Consulting is the foremost midstream expert. Guys, if you had at all. Are dealing with issues in the midstream space, whether you’re an upstream company and need help with your first purchaser’s contract or renegotiating your gas contracts or figuring out where you’re gonna tie in your next pad because you’ve got multiple different options and you’re trying to break it all down. Reese Energy Consulting can help. If you’re in the mainstream space, I need an extra pair of hands, need some permitting or regulation help, or need some red team analysis on a final investment decision, guys. They have the team that can help you check out ReeseEnergyConsulting.com They have clients everywhere and all throughout the country from two people in a garage all the way up to the largest publicly traded companies in the world. So if you’re wondering, are you a good fit for them? The answer is yes. ReeseEnergyConsulting.com And finally guys, investinoil.energynewsbeat.com We are coming up on the end of the year. And I promise you guys, you do not wanna be paying money to Uncle Sam. You wanna keep as much money in your pocket. You wanna diversify your portfolio a little bit and you want to get some dividends. You can do that by investing in oil and gas. Check out investinoil.energynewsbeat.com Fill out our portfolio survey and our tax calculator. And guess what, you guys, you guys are gonna get and get a nice ebook that tells you here’s what you should look for when you invest in oil and gas. And also figure out what your tax burden is and figure out how much you might save relative to your tax burn if you did invest in Oil and Gas, guys. We practice what we preach here, guys, we do this stuff ourselves. Investin oil.energy newsbeat .com Don’t give your money to Uncle Sam. Figure out and find out if oil and gas investing is for you. Depending on if you qualify, we will, again, send you all that information and we may or may not point you in the right direction. Again, investin oil.energynewsbeat.com.  [00:19:29][163.7]

Stuart Turley: [00:19:30] OPEC plus has come close to its limit, leaving prices open to spike. In a volatile world of global energy markets, OPEX plus, the alliance of oil producing nations led by Saudi Arabia and Russia is pushing against production boundaries with spare capacity dwindling. Michael, this is huge because everybody says OPECs got lots of it. Guess what? Not so of it. These attack the geopolitical are fueling supply risk. But let’s take a look. I’ve got a chart in here. Global recovery oil reserves. I did not know or have on my bingo card that Venezuela had 303 billion barrels of reserves. No wonder we got an armada sitting out there off the coast of Venezuela. But then, you know, coming down there and seeing the U.S. Only got 45 billion barrels. Russia’s got 80 billion. The UAE 113. Wow. But let’s come down here to this one. Let’s go to spare capacity. Saudi Arabia to the best number that I could find had 3,100 estimated barrels per day of spare capacity, I’m not so sure about the UAE. I started digging in on that one. And Iraq, they are looking at having, Iran is looking at actually having Exxon come in to Iraq. So Exxson, they’re looking to come in in Iraq. Why in the world would we even have any spare capacity when they’re looking at bringing in a U.S. Oil and gas exploration company in order to be able to do it? I don’t think so. But when I got in here from also Josh Young on his substack, Taking a look at the ratio of oil to gold ratio, we’re at the lowest it’s been. And when it is normally this low, oil starts going up. [00:21:27][116.2]

Michael Tanner: [00:21:27] Yeah, that, that I think, I think there’s two really interesting things in this article. One, what you just pointed out, the fact that we’re at that gold to oil ratio to the point where we all of a sudden see oil swinging back around, but we all know gold is reaching all times highs. Trust me, guys, I got some Samaria partners in my portfolio added to my position a few days ago. Thank you, Carl and Wasif. We love them over there. But the other thing that I you mentioned that’s aptly, aptly true is the estimated bare capacity. Because remember what happened on Sunday, they said they’re going to add another 137,000 barrels per day. But you just read off these numbers and wait a second, they’re only slightly close to that. These are in kilobarrels per day, okay. So this is, you got to multiply this by a thousand. So really this 3,100 is really 310,000, the UAE is a hundred thousand, Iraq’s 500,000 Kuwait’s 300,000. But that still only adds up to 600,000 barrels per day. So they’re slowly getting to the point where that 2.2 million barrel cut that they did five years ago or four years ago is never gonna be able to come back considering these numbers. And we already know based on reports that happened last week that they’re even struggling to reach this 137,000 barrels per date. It’s part of the reason why we saw oil prices spike today, not necessarily because of this, because the street doesn’t buy all of this. We’re adding barrels back, we’re adding barrels back. It’s hard when you shut in a well, it is hard to bring it back. And even if it does come back, it generally doesn’t come back as strong. So then you’re focused on new drilling. Well, the problem is one of the things that I, that I’ve been, we’ve been talking about for years is the pressure depletion that’s gone on in Saudi Arabia. At some point in oil field loses pressure, especially if it’s a conventional sandstone. Take shale out of it because it’s a little bit of a different story. Yes, you need bottom hole pressure, but primarily you’re talking about different completion method, but a conventional reservoir, bottom hole pressure is everything. And trust me, the pressure depletion that has gone on in Saudi Arabia, they’ve been producing the same fields for 60 years. The field, it’s the same field. They haven’t moved. It’s not like they’ve gone out and found another field. I mean, the one thing we benefit from in the United States is the fact that we’re always trying to innovate and find new fields. That’s the whole, that’s what drives the U.S. Small independent is trying to find that new field, that untapped field. Well, in Saudi Arabia, it’s one company, Saudi Aramco. So they’re just gonna produce the guar field until they can’t produce it no more. And trust me, they’re having to suck a lot harder on the straw for the exact same amount of oil. [00:23:58][151.1]

Stuart Turley: [00:23:58] Well, that’s funny. I’ve got two mices in my hand. So this is a way that we have. Well, recovery does not work clear. Take two miles to try to go clear. It doesn’t work that way, man. It’s a lot harder than that. The United States has begun receiving shipments of tungsten straight from Rwanda, bypassing China. I kind of like this story in a significant step towards securing America’s supply chains and reducing reliance on foreign adversaries. The United States has done something right for a change. Speaking of Chris Wright has received his first direct shipment of tungsten from Rwanda. The milestone achieved through partnership of Rwamanda Mining Company, Trinity Minerals and U.S. Based Global Tungsten and Powers, GTP marks a brilliant effort. I thought this was absolutely outstanding. Senior officials, GTP, a subsidiary of the Australian Planees Group and commodities trader celebrated the arrival along with the U S ambassador to Rwanda. This is really cool. I want to know where I did not get this and I failed to do this when I wrote this article this morning. I should have put in there. Where is it going to be refined and turned into final product of tungsten because that is a big question. [00:25:17][78.5]

Michael Tanner: [00:25:17] Yeah. This is great from a supply standpoint or in terms of supply security, because now we get a cut out the middle man there. Obviously, you know, what’s going on with China with the fires. What I hope is that we then begin to put standards for how this stuff should be mined because we know what the problem is in Africa. It’s child mines, it’s child labor and they are not paid well and they’re not treated well. So my hope is not only is we getting China out of the equation, but we’re starting treat them right. I think we will, but we will see it. It hasn’t necessarily been the case. A lot of these buyers of critical minerals to have kind of put their hands over their eyes and say, well, I see nothing. They’re a little current. They are Sergeant Schultz. I see, nothing. I see. Nothing. So it’s pretty interesting from that standpoint. So I think depending on what we decide to see there, it’s going to continue to push us forward to kind of bolster our critical minerals output. This has sort of been a theme of the Trump administration and specifically Secretary of Energy, Chris Wright. He’s focused on a bunch of different things, specifically these international partnerships. Also there’s been some domestic infrastructure approvals just like the Amble Road in Alaska, which is a goal is to unlock a bunch of deposits of copper and zinc. So not only are we going international, we’re coming here internal. [00:26:40][82.9]

Stuart Turley: [00:26:41] President Trump approves the 211 mile road to Alaska’s Ambler Mining District. This is a pretty cool story. I’ve even got the map for the Ambler Access project in the story. I think this is, again, a commitment from Secretary Burgum, Chris Wright, and Lee Zeldin in an effort to be the three horsemen of the energy dominance apocalypse. I truly believe they’re gonna get it done. And this is the Amblar Mining district is a treasure trove of critical minerals. 75 mile long, belt rich and high grade resources. It’s pretty darn cool. [00:27:17][36.3]

Michael Tanner: [00:27:18] Yeah. It really is interesting. I think, and as I mentioned in the last segment, the investment into this is critical. It’s going to keep, you know, if we are going to move to a big battery centric society, which I was actually at a lunch today and we were talking about this, I’m not against the rollout of high grade lithium battery. I think that’s great. Battery backup, battery storage. I even think the EV revolution when it comes to what Elon Musk is doing with Tesla is not bad. And I think it’s in there the long term. The critical part is how you power them. How do you charge that battery? It’s definitely not going to be wind. It may be a little bit of redundant solar, but it’s going to be natural gas. It’s going be coal. And being able to get these minerals and help blow that out is going to critical. And I applaud the administration for making this going. [00:28:00][42.6]

Stuart Turley: [00:28:01] I do too. And I want to add one thing before we turn it over to your segment and that is I want make sure that we understand that we need to have the hardware that these things go into made in the United States because there was a story we ran on NewsBeat that the in South Korea there was lithium battery backup in a data center that was remotely overrun and burned down. So all of a sudden the South Korean government had hackers in and that went through there. So not only are we getting Tungsten, we’ve now got the Ambler Road, the government is doing that. We’ve got to make sure we get the factories to build The products that use these things now. [00:28:47][46.0]

Michael Tanner: [00:28:47] No, absolutely. And we’re about to cover on the other side here, exactly what Shell did with a filled renewables problem. [00:28:47][0.0][1704.9]