In the movie “The Last Boy Scout” with Bruce Willis, one of his tag lines was “The sky is blue, water is wet, women have secrets.” This comes to mind when I think of our grid, energy security, and global energy push to almost pure insanity. Like Bruce says so eloquently, some things are physically understandable and things that we all take as truths. Women’s secrets and the physics of electricity are very much a truth.
There are some serious misconceptions about energy. Solar panels don’t attach to the grid automatically; the wind does not always produce the same amount on the technical nameplate of the turbine; nuclear and major grid upgrades can’t be built without a complete overhaul of the legislation through the Regulations process.
This is the third conversation that I have had with Robert Bryce, podcast host and author. He is a true leader in the global energy market, and his series “Juce The Series” has to be watched at: https://juicetheseries.com/
Thank you, Robert, for your time and leadership. – Stu
Please follow all of Robert’s content on his website and his Substack HERE: https://robertbryce.substack.com/
Highlights of the Podcast
00:48 – Grid stability challenge
02:15 – Juice docu-series overview
04:46 – Oage tribe story
05:00 – Legal battle over wind energy
06:08 – Expensive wind turbine removal
07:32 – Nuclear power’s long-term view
08:55 – Complexity of the electric grid
10:04 – Need for open energy debates
13:16 – Electricity’s impact on poverty
14:25 – Grid’s critical importance
15:22 – Vulnerability of the grid
16:01 – National security risks
19:00 – Robert Bryce’s passion
21:02 – Advocacy for working class
21:53 – Germany’s Energy Policy
23:40 – Wind Farm Issues
28:23 – Alternative Energy Subsidies
32:35 – Carbon Tax Uncertainty
33:59 – Regressive Energy Policies
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Automatic Transcript: We disavow any errors unless they make us smarter or better looking.
Stuart Turley [00:00:08] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Energy News Beat podcast. My name’s Su Turley, president CEO of the sandstone Group. And I’ll tell you, when you sit back and take a look at power, politics and the grid, it is a mess. But today we have an absolutely fabulous guest. We are going to talk about his five part docu series and it’s on juice, the series.com. It is juice power politics in the grid. At first we’re going to go ahead and play about it, play about a 32nd intro clip with Meredith Angwin, and then we’re also going to, jump right on into the podcast. Sit back. Enjoy. And I truly enjoyed my visit with Robert Bryce. Thank you very much.
Juice Documentary [00:00:53] Difficult to keep it stable or difficult to provide power in a reliable manner. More expensive. Can game it by taking a couple plants offline and watching the clearing price soar. Taking plants offline in the old grid didn’t do you any good. In the new grid it does. That new grid Meredith is talking about wasn’t designed to prioritize consumers. The old grid, the one built by people like Edison, Insull and others, ensured reliability because if electricity isn’t reliable, it’s not affordable.
Stuart Turley [00:01:31] Thank you, Robert, for stopping by. I appreciate you.
Robert Bryce [00:01:34] Awesome. Glad to see you, Stu.
Stuart Turley [00:01:37] I tell you what, a little inside baseball, you and I and Meredith had a, a, another podcast. And I love Meredith, and I love the whole messaging that she has in there as well, too, with nuclear. She’s in your series, though, right?
Robert Bryce [00:01:55] Yes. And if I could just say a couple of quick things. One is juice, the series.com. Did I mention juice the series.com if I didn’t.
Stuart Turley [00:02:03] Let.
Robert Bryce [00:02:03] Me just say juice the series.com.
Stuart Turley [00:02:06] Stu okay.
Robert Bryce [00:02:07] Not a five part docu series. Juice power, politics and the grid. It’s a five part docu series, 20 minutes each. We talk about the fragility of our what, the importance of the electric grid, why it’s being undermined, and what we need to do to fix it. So, it’s a project I worked on with my colleague Tyson Culver for three years. Came out, at the end of January. I’m really very proud of it. And, we had over half a million views already, really getting good traction with it. So I really encourage people to, to check it out, share it, think about it, talk about it. Juice the series.com. Did I mention.
Stuart Turley [00:02:39] Juice.com I.
Robert Bryce [00:02:40] Hope I mentioned.
Stuart Turley [00:02:41] I love that. Now here’s the other thing. You had a premiere, I believe, in Denver. You had a, opening event, I believe in Denver. And Doug Sandridge and also Chris Rice were there, weren’t they? Chris. Right. From, Liberty Energy.
Robert Bryce [00:03:01] That’s right. And Doug Sandridge, who’s, the founder, the president of oil and gas executives for nuclear. They were there. We showed it at the Imax theater in Denver back in, Genk, January 9th. Great. Great event. We’ve done other now screenings. In Dallas, we did a screening in Tulsa. We did the Dallas SMU. We showed at the Circle Cinema in Tulsa, the Historic Circle Cinema. Then we showed it also in Gray Horse, Oklahoma, which is, the historic, ceremonial center of the Osage tribe. We showed episode three, and in, Gray Horse, which was.
Stuart Turley [00:03:38] Meaningful.
Robert Bryce [00:03:39] For me. Stu, if I could just take a, just a point of personal privilege. All five of these episodes really matter to me, but episode three is particularly personal. I’m from Oklahoma. I have deep roots in Oklahoma.
Stuart Turley [00:03:50] My great my great.
Robert Bryce [00:03:52] Uncle Ernie Rapp, was a member of the Osage tribe. He was born in Fairfax, Oklahoma, in 1909, and so he had a front row seat to the Reign of Terror in the 1920s.
Stuart Turley [00:04:01] Oh, wow.
Robert Bryce [00:04:03] The the history of the Osage and the the the the story around killers of the Flower Moon, which, of course, is Scorseses movie.
Stuart Turley [00:04:11] And yes.
Robert Bryce [00:04:12] That that history is not ancient history by any means. In fact, this is episode three. We show how and now the Italian company came into Osage County, violated the tribe’s sovereignty by putting up 84 wind turbines, on their traditional land, violate state. And, now, a federal court judge has ordered those turbines to be taken down. But we have 5 to 5 interviews with Osage tribal members in episode three, Green Dreams.
Stuart Turley [00:04:36] I didn’t, we did.
Robert Bryce [00:04:38] Tyson did a great job stitching it all together. But it’s just an incredible story. An incredible story about the Osage, and the tribe, tribal members that I’ve known for a very long time. And we’re privileged to be able to tell their story.
Stuart Turley [00:04:50] That is outstandingly cool. And your Substack, what’s your Substack? A huge Robert.
Robert Bryce [00:04:56] I.substack.com. Did I say I start substack.com? Yes, I did.
Stuart Turley [00:05:01] And I’m a stocker on that as well too, because I absolutely love your material. And you have been talking a lot about the wind and, and how all that happens with that and that lawsuit. Yeah.
Robert Bryce [00:05:14] You know, it’s a it’s a it’s a landmark ruling, by the federal court judge in Tulsa. The battle over that wind project is the longest running legal battle over wind energy in American history.
Stuart Turley [00:05:24] And, wow.
Robert Bryce [00:05:26] You know, it’s got no play whatsoever in the New York Times, completely ignored by the Washington Post, Associated Press, the rest of it. But it’s an incredibly important story and one that, the fact that the tried this one now is a demonstration of the, you know, the big win for tribal sovereignty, huge win for the Osage. And now all the Osage tribal members we’ve talked to say they want those turbines taken down. And and now, as estimated, it’s going to cost them $300 million to take them down.
Stuart Turley [00:05:55] How many? It’s about 500,000 just to remove, the cement and steel at the bottom of these crazy things.
Robert Bryce [00:06:03] It’s going to be an insanely expensive. And still, when that happens, I am going to be in Fairfax in Burbank, Oklahoma to watch it happen.
Stuart Turley [00:06:10] I mean, I want to be there, too and let me know, I cannot wait because I want to film you and just be there to do a live podcast from there, if you don’t mind. Oh, well, no.
Robert Bryce [00:06:23] I think it’s a now. And now it’s trying to show up, trying to to to fight the decision. They’re doing as much legal maneuvering as they can, but it’s a very important ruling.
Stuart Turley [00:06:33] But I think the.
Robert Bryce [00:06:33] Other broader point, and it’s as I said, it’s episode three of the docu series, all five episodes are really important. We start with episode one, where we talk about Winter Storm Uri and what had happened here in Texas.
Stuart Turley [00:06:46] Episode two, we talked about.
Robert Bryce [00:06:48] Enron and the it’s called Undermined by Enron. The the effect that Enron has had still today in electricity, the electricity in the United States, green dreams. I mentioned episode three. Episode four is called The Nuclear Renaissance. We’ll go to Canada and talk about why Canada is leading the nuclear comeback globally. And then the last when we quote, extensively and as featured is, our friend Emmett Penny, who talks about nuclear cathedrals and why we need long term thinking about the electric grid and nuclear power is, you know, an obvious example of this long term thinking that we need to have when we think about the stability of the grid, the future, reliability, affordability, resilience, etc.. So, that’s the rundown over the five episodes. But, just a series.com, I think I mentioned just the series that.
Stuart Turley [00:07:33] I absolutely love you, Robert. You’re one of the greatest guys out there. And in your older movie that was out in 2019. Yeah, I was sitting there watching that. And you you get it. It starts out with you in bed and you and you start heading out. That’s on Amazon as well. People need to see that one as well too. I mean that was a great movie.
Robert Bryce [00:07:55] Thank you. That one. And that was a feature length film 80 minutes. And and thinking about this project, the docu series, we started putting it together and we realized, you know, we didn’t want to make an 80 minute or 100 minute lecture on the grid. So we decided to break it into five parts. And I’m glad that we did, because, you know, the world is moving toward shorter form content. And that’s what we did here.
Stuart Turley [00:08:17] You know, the grid is is probably one of the largest machines. And I learned a lot from visiting with Meredith, and Gwen and you on our podcast interview and stuff. Yeah. And, and, we need all forms of energy. And, you know, Robert, you have talked extensively about the high cost of not having a balanced grid. Sure.
Robert Bryce [00:08:43] And that’s one of the points that I, you know, we strove to make in the docu series was to let people understand how complex the system is, and it is incredibly complex. In fact, I did a Substack on it not too long ago, and I called the, the The Electric Grid explained in ten charts. And so I just made ten charts to try and say, well, here’s what it is.
Stuart Turley [00:09:04] But if you.
Robert Bryce [00:09:05] Think about it, you have over 3000 different electricity providers in America. So you have the federal power agencies Bonneville, TVA, Western Power Administration, etc. then you have, about 180 investor owned utilities like Duke or know any of the other ones, Consolidated Edison. Then you have 2000 community owned utilities like Austin Energy. I live in Austin, Texas. It’s city owned and 800 and some odd 850 electric cooperatives. So you take all those together, and it’s just this incredibly complex system that then is overseen by public utility commissions. At the state level. You got the RTOs and the ISOs, you have, the different bodies and jurisdictions, and then you have the Department of Energy, you have Ferc, you have all these things.
Stuart Turley [00:09:51] But ultimately, he points to the docu series.
Robert Bryce [00:09:54] She was just said no one is responsible for reliability. And that’s the key issue.
Stuart Turley [00:10:00] And it’s being misrepresented. The greenwashing. From the renewable side is not having an open discussion. You’re really big into open discussions about this stuff. You know, let’s talk about a plan because it makes sense to have the plan.
Robert Bryce [00:10:21] Well, and that is what we hope to achieve with the docu series is to ignite more conversation. We want people to understand what’s going on, and that’s essential. We can’t begin to address the reliability issue if people don’t understand what is at stake and or understand what the system is. That’s why we’re giving the film away, right? Giving all five episodes away. They’re free on YouTube. You can link to him, as I said on juice, the series.com, we have other content, short form content there with short, you know, shorter and different people. But we want to change the conversation. You know, we want people to understand what the hell is going on here. And, and unfortunately, many people don’t. And that’s one of great. You know, you and I are both fans of Meredith Angwin.
Stuart Turley [00:11:02] You know.
Robert Bryce [00:11:03] And what a remarkable story she has that the here she is, this grandmother in her late 70s and lives in rural Vermont. She self publishes her book Shorting the Grid and not overnight, but in the span of 6 to 9, 12 months, she becomes an internationally recognized expert on electricity and electricity grids. And it’s just a, it’s a testament to both her own fortitude and her own intelligence and her own grit. But also a really, I think a charming story because she’s.
Stuart Turley [00:11:32] Absolutely. And her husband’s a cool cat, too.
Robert Bryce [00:11:36] She’s so personally charming and self-effacing. But she also had this motivation to help try and change the conversation. So, she’s, you know, we have 34 interviews on camera for the five episodes. She’s.
Stuart Turley [00:11:48] One.
Robert Bryce [00:11:48] Of the stars. Chris Kiefer from Canada. Robin, my friend Roger Pilkey, junior from Colorado. Matty Healy, I mentioned Chris Kiefer, Michael Schaffer at hers. John Love Shellenberger.
Stuart Turley [00:12:02] Yeah, he is good to when we sit back and think, what prompted you down your mission? Because, like, Chris, right over at energy has really formulated how my podcast has come to fruition. When I met him years ago, he had a great presentation of humanity. Yeah, I had never really that did not hit my, my, my brain. And all of a sudden, like, electricity juice makes a difference. It elevates people out of poverty. And you had a great quote, I believe in there. And it was, just because you have low cost energy doesn’t mean, that you will be elevated out of poverty or something like this, but if you don’t have it, you won’t be.
Robert Bryce [00:12:54] But yeah, I think I said electricity doesn’t guarantee wealth, but the absence of electricity.
Stuart Turley [00:12:59] Thank you. Poverty. Yeah.
Robert Bryce [00:13:01] And I think one of the other things that we really are trying to achieve with both the well, we achieved it, I think with the first film and with this one too, she was pointing out the issue of energy poverty is key and right, particularly focused on, the issue of electricity for women and girls. And it’s in the first film that electricity liberates women and girls from the pump, the stove in the washtub and, and, and in the docu series, we go back to the New Deal as well because this is and it’s a point I’m making my my latest book, Question of Power.
Stuart Turley [00:13:32] What what motivated the New.
Robert Bryce [00:13:34] Dealers like, George Norris and Burton Wheeler and, and Sam Rayburn during the New Deal to push for rural electrification. A lot of it was their concern for farm women. You know, Rayburn.
Stuart Turley [00:13:47] Yes.
Robert Bryce [00:13:48] Rayburn grew up in Bonham, Texas, on a cotton on a cotton farm, and he saw his mother wash clothes by hand. And the same with, with George Norris. And so, you know, my my grandmother washed clothes by hand. You know, this isn’t ancient history. That what we’re talking about. So the the, you know, the the key to elevating human lives. And that’s what a bettering human lives is. What Christian right talks about in Liberty at Liberty energy.
Stuart Turley [00:14:14] Right.
Robert Bryce [00:14:14] Listening is the form of energy we crave over every other. And so with this docu series, we want to keep that focus, that spotlight on electricity, because this is the most are and the grid because it’s our most important energy network.
Stuart Turley [00:14:28] I, I’ve been, talking about the, vulnerability of the grid for several years now and, the Wall Street Journal, not the Wall Street, but, somebody had put out that there are over 30 major interconnects, that are made by China. And then we have, you know, then we had the spy balloon come over and then they said, oh, by the way, this thing was, connected to the US, internet provider. It’s kind of. That they can remotely shut down, what, 20, 30% of the grid? Whatever the number is, it’s frightening.
Robert Bryce [00:15:08] Yeah, I don’t know about those numbers. I’m not familiar with that.
Stuart Turley [00:15:10] Exactly. Those are not documented. So just a lot. But there’s no.
Robert Bryce [00:15:15] Doubt that the grid is vulnerable. And, you know, we focus primarily on, the changing resource mix because this is one of the issues that, the North American Electric Reliability Corporation has, has pointed out over and over again and, but, you know, remember, we have a whole bunch of NGOs that are now trying to undermine the grid. And, you know.
Stuart Turley [00:15:36] It’s.
Robert Bryce [00:15:37] Hundreds of millions of dollars. I pointed out I spoke at the.
Stuart Turley [00:15:42] National.
Robert Bryce [00:15:42] Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners in Washington the other morning and pointed out that the Beyond Carbon campaign just got $500 million from Michael Bloomberg.
Stuart Turley [00:15:52] Well, what’s the goal?
Robert Bryce [00:15:53] It’s to shut down every coal plant in America and half of the gas plants in America. I mean, this is just an incredibly dangerous, proposition. And, you know, the the NGOs, the climate NGO has had a hissy fit that I would dare mention this because I pointed out that this is a national security risk.
Stuart Turley [00:16:11] It is.
Robert Bryce [00:16:12] And yet they just, you know. Oh, how dare you, you know, point this out. How dare you say that? If a terrorist group was proposing this, that would be viewed as a national security threat. Well, that’s the reality. It wouldn’t be viewed as a national security threat. But because it’s Michael Bloomberg, one of the richest people in the world saying this. Crickets. You know, it’s like, oh, he’s a rich guy. You know, we don’t talk about that. But it’s, you know, these are very serious issues. And that’s again, why Tyson Culver, my colleague, who did a great job putting the docu series together, that was really what motivate us to get this film done was, you know, we got blacked out in Austin in 2021 during Winter Storm Uri.
Stuart Turley [00:16:50] And yeah, that was tough.
Robert Bryce [00:16:52] And in the aftermath, it was clear, you know, Ercot came within 4 or 5 minutes of a complete shutdown. It have that happened. Tens of thousands of people would have died.
Stuart Turley [00:17:01] Exactly.
Robert Bryce [00:17:02] You know, there’s the the the danger here is obvious, and it is one that is very, very clear. And Ferc Nurk the RTOs, they’re all pointing this out and they’re saying the same things. And we need to pay attention.
Stuart Turley [00:17:19] a couple of things. what about was it the Canadian leader? I just read the article on where he said they they’re proposing something where if you even mentioned good things about fossil fuel, it would be a crime. Yeah, I agree. I saw the.
Robert Bryce [00:17:35] Headline on that, and I, you know, this is.
Stuart Turley [00:17:38] It’s a very.
Robert Bryce [00:17:39] Concerted effort to limit speech in this country and elsewhere around issues around climate and renewables and the rest of it. And it’s very dangerous, prospect and, you know, my friend Emmett Penny has a very good piece on Substack about that today. But, we need more discussion. We need more open and aggressive debate. Instead, we’re, you know, we see the other, the the, activists, who are nominally liberals trying to shut down debate.
Stuart Turley [00:18:06] Right. I have both of your books, at my office in, Dallas, and, I’m up here, up at my place in Oklahoma over at Lake Teen Killer. So, and I noticed if you notice my hat, I put my cowboy hat back here behind me. Because when you walked out the door in that 2019 movie, you had my hat sitting there. So, I just feel very proud that my hat made it into your first movie. So. Now, when we sit back and take a look, Robert, I just want for our, podcast listeners. You are solving a major problem by articulating facts. Facts, physics and, sustainability through fiscal responsibility matter. And you are getting that story out there just about better than anybody else I’ve seen out there.
Robert Bryce [00:19:10] Well, I’m I’m working hard, Stu, and I appreciate that. That’s very kind of thing to say. I busted my tail. I mean, you know, I work a lot, and, I’m producing a lot of content, whether it’s video or podcasts. I do a lot of speaking. 20 some odd speaking engagements on my calendar this year. Already and, travel screenings. You know, and my Substack, Robert bryce.substack.com. And now I’m promoting the film as well.
Stuart Turley [00:19:37] So.
Robert Bryce [00:19:40] But also Stuart, you know, I’m very lucky. And what I do, I’m incredibly fortunate to have the work that I have, and I this is my purpose and my passion. I don’t do anything else. I mean, I, I have a great family. I’m incredibly fortunate. My wife, Lauren, and I’ve been married almost 38 years. You know, I’m just incredibly fortunate to do what I do and to be able to talk about energy and power systems. And, I consider myself incredibly lucky.
Stuart Turley [00:20:06] But you’re good at what you do, Robert, with your passion. And so that’s the old story of do, you know what you’re passionate about. It’s not a job. Yeah.
Robert Bryce [00:20:17] Well, it’s a job. I’m not going to say it’s not a job.
Stuart Turley [00:20:20] I’ll get that one out.
Robert Bryce [00:20:22] Today because I’ve been traveling a lot. But, you know, I what I, what motivates me, Stuart, is, you know, I spent a lot of time in rural America, and I spent a lot of time in talking to small cooperatives and, public power entities, and I’m. And who do I who do I hope to speak for? Who do I hope to represent when I talk about affordability and resilience and reliability? It’s not the fat cats. It’s not the the people on in disco or New York or, you know, in Washington DC. It’s the people who actually work for a living, who make things, build things, grow things, fix things, people who have their names on their shirts. I love those people, and they are not represented in Washington to any great degree. They are ignored.
Stuart Turley [00:21:07] And so that’s.
Robert Bryce [00:21:10] That’s who I hope to speak for and speak up on behalf of, because, you know, the the we have a lot of very elite people whose only whose only focus is on, you know, eliminating CO2 and, and, and fighting against the your carbons. But they aren’t really the people who make this country work and they, they have completely lost touch with the working class. And that’s a very dangerous thing. And so, I hope and I it’s one of the reasons that one of the things that motivates me is we need a more balanced approach to what where we are in this country.
Stuart Turley [00:21:49] Deindustrialization is happening very, very badly. Did poor old Germany with their energy policies? Yeah. And, you know.
Robert Bryce [00:22:00] I don’t feel sorry for them at all. I, you know, if I were a better person, a better Christian, maybe a better Catholic, I’d feel sorry for Germany and the rest of Europe.
Stuart Turley [00:22:07] I don’t, you know, I know that you bragged.
Robert Bryce [00:22:12] About how fast you were going into the ditch and how great it was. I hope you like it there, because you know you did it to yourself. No one told you to do this. You did it to yourself. So tough turkey, you know. Tell me. Tell me how like, how do you like it?
Stuart Turley [00:22:26] And then Doug Sandridge went out there when they shut their last nukes down. And then the hypocrisy, of, Greta going to a German, coal plant that they were forcing to shut down. And I think six months later, they had to, shut down the wind farm that was there so they could dig more coal under the wind farm. You can’t buy this kind of lunacy.
Robert Bryce [00:22:53] That’s the gaz. Why lignite mine? And I think it’s here that that operates one of the, the power plants there, if I’m not mistaken. But it’s a it’s a very large lignite mine, which of course, is a low ranked.
Stuart Turley [00:23:04] Coal.
Robert Bryce [00:23:05] And produces more CO2 than perhaps any other form of electricity generation.
Stuart Turley [00:23:09] Anyway.
Robert Bryce [00:23:10] What is Germany doing? You know, their energy security is coming first. They’re putting energy security ahead of concerns about CO2 and climate change. So they’re expanding the lignite mine. And to expand the lignite mine. What did they have to do? They had to take down a wind project. I mean, you can’t make that up.
Stuart Turley [00:23:26] I am, I am, I might I just be honest? I am more aligned with Chris, and the humanitarian and your humanitarian, statements. I’m energy agnostic. However, it has to be sustained, sustainable through not printing money. And, the wind farms. Boy, if we could fix the the recyclable aspect of solar panels, the recyclable aspect of, like, the boneyard of all the wind farm, stuff in Texas. I’d be more aligned with not having to print money if it was, you know, taken along like that, it would make more sense, wouldn’t it?
Robert Bryce [00:24:10] Well, you hit on, a lot of issues that are being ignored, you know, which is.
Stuart Turley [00:24:16] The price.
Robert Bryce [00:24:17] For a lot of this, alternative technology, alternative energy stuff. You know, the amount of, potential solid waste here is just staggeringly large. And there was a Harvard Business School study that was done, about a year or year and a half, two years ago, maybe that found that by 20 as early as 2040 or something like that, that the volume of solar panels that are being thrown out will the, the, rather the mass, the weight will exceed all of the, the new panels coming into the market. So the tidal wave of, alt energy trash that is going to have to be landfilled. And we’re already seeing that with a lot of these wind turbine blades that are being either dumped out in the middle of, of, of rural areas. And I saw this. I did a short, TikTok. I do, you know, I use my phone and I do these short videos.
Stuart Turley [00:25:11] And those are great, by the way, I don’t want to cut you up, but those are great and meaningful. Sorry.
Robert Bryce [00:25:16] One near Sweetwater, Texas. And and I did it in about ten minutes and that got 160,000 views. I mean, it’s just incredible. But it’s because they’re these big waste dumps of, of wind turbine blades are just being thrown out and laying on the ground and not being recycled. You know, how is this green? How is this.
Stuart Turley [00:25:35] Clean?
Robert Bryce [00:25:37] I don’t I don’t use those terms anymore, Stu. I don’t it’s not it’s not clean. It’s not clean. It’s not renewable. It’s alternative energy. All those other things are marketing terms. Green, clean, renewable. Those are marketing terms I don’t use.
Stuart Turley [00:25:52] It’s it’s alternative.
Robert Bryce [00:25:53] Energy.
Stuart Turley [00:25:54] You know, I’ve been digging around and.
Robert Bryce [00:25:57] Fossil fuels either I call them hydrocarbons.
Stuart Turley [00:26:00] Yes they are. Yes. I agree with you. Who I was at Rockefeller or whoever coined the term fossil fuels to try to put a thing, whoever that was. But, I can’t find any data, Robert. And when I’m sitting here looking at it, everybody says a wind farm is going to last 30 years is hogwash. They are fiscally irresponsible from day one, but I’ve been finding that they’ve been having real problems maintenance wise, starting in year seven when the warnings are running out, and then the expense of all the maintenance is coming in. And so at ten years, they’re totally needing to be shut down. And then I’m also seeing that the Inflation Reduction Act and I believe I stole this from you, but, they’re starting to redo these things at five years and six years. So the consumers get to pay twice for these things through the taxes and everything else. Did I assume that correctly?
Robert Bryce [00:27:07] You’re on the right track here. The a lot of these projects, these wind projects are doing what’s called repowering. So they’re putting new turbines, in the natural, the taking down the old nacelles, putting up new ones with new guts, new mechanics, new machinery that’s more efficient than the old one. And so then they not only get, more efficiency out of the existing turf at the existing site, but they restart the clock on the tax credits. So, you know, again, I can’t be any more cynical about this than I am. I don’t have.
Stuart Turley [00:27:39] A lot.
Robert Bryce [00:27:39] Of money that’s being thrown into alternative energy is the story. And to me, it indicates this isn’t about climate change. It doesn’t have anything to do with climate change. It’s about the money period. It follow the money. And I spoke, I mentioned that day, earlier this week and I presented a slide and I made it very, you know, it’s not my numbers, the numbers that in 2022, the solar sector got 300 times more in federal tax credits per unit of energy produced in the nuclear sector, 300 times 302.
Stuart Turley [00:28:11] Pump.
Robert Bryce [00:28:12] And and and wind got 136 times more than oil and gas. So so idea that a woman gas getting it. You know these insanely large SUVs it’s just not true. It’s a it’s a it’s a fiction that’s being promoted by some very powerful NGOs. That have a lot of money. But, you know, the reality is we’re getting in. This goes back to the docu series juice, the series.com. Did I mention use that term?
Stuart Turley [00:28:35] I love it, but that we’re.
Robert Bryce [00:28:37] We’re we’re spending all this money and we’re putting it in the wrong places. Instead of making.
Stuart Turley [00:28:41] Our city.
Robert Bryce [00:28:42] More weather resilient, we’re making it weather dependent. That’s the wrong way to go.
Stuart Turley [00:28:47] Oh, absolutely. You know, David Blackman, also had a couple of good points, along that same line. But it it’s not also follow the money. It’s I think he’s called it even like, wealth transfer because you get rich, doing it. But that cost is being people are getting screwed. Look at New York, prices for electricity in California, prices for electricity. Now, Texas prices have gone up a lot, but we’re still half of what they are. Yeah.
Robert Bryce [00:29:22] And I just the new Electric power monthly just came out. And so we have the full year data for 2023. Electricity prices in California since 2008, when Schwarzenegger, put in the new our mandated renewables that have gone up at a rate three times faster than the rest of the US as a whole. So this is not a coincidence, just the increase, again, just the increase in electricity prices for residential customers in California between 2008 and 2023 went up $0.15 a kilowatt hour.
Stuart Turley [00:29:56] Wow.
Robert Bryce [00:29:58] So, you know, the that the average price I need to study these numbers. You’re going to look at them again. But, yeah here it is. They went up in cents per kilowatt hour. The increase in California was 15 $0.15. That was, bigger increase than any other state in the country by far. And compared to the US, it was less than $0.05. So more than triple the increase, rate of increase over the rest of the US. And also last year in California, the rates went up, nearly 12%, 11.9%. So, you know, rates are just skyrocketing. They went up double the rate of increase of the US as a whole last year. And you know, right now, the average price of electricity in California for residential users is $0.29 a kilowatt hour. That’s that’s nearly twice the national average.
Stuart Turley [00:30:51] And what’s Texas? My dad has a contract that’s ending, at $0.11 per kilowatt hour, and they’re really wanting him out of that one. So I think that’s a good price. Yeah.
Robert Bryce [00:31:03] Let me see. I’ve got a. Oh. Where is that? Here’s right here. I’ve got it right in front of me. Yeah. The average now in Texas is 14.3.
Stuart Turley [00:31:15] Right. And so his contract is several years old, and that’s about to end. Let me ask this of you, Robert. I really want your opinion. Now that the wind farms are you know, we we’ve seen so many, of the wind farms, either offshore or others that are, absolutely losing so much money in, like, Siemens lost, what, 1 billion or 2? What’s a few billion between friends? And what’s your what’s your website again? Juice. Robert.
Robert Bryce [00:31:47] Rice.substack.com.
Stuart Turley [00:31:49] Right. So, that way people can come, you know, get you, you know, we need a billion subscribers for you. But if you take a look at the billions, it is lost in the wind industry and people are leaving the amount of articles and things that are coming in for carbon tax, where you think it almost looks like the entire market for wealth transfer, as David Blackmon has been talking about, is shifting to carbon tax. And you have the all this kind of stuff. Do you see that same focus going as as bad as it was on that and carbon taxes and all that stuff.
Robert Bryce [00:32:30] Oh carbon taxes I’m not very bullish on because they’re so deeply unpopular. So I an.
Stuart Turley [00:32:36] Awful.
Robert Bryce [00:32:38] Wager a lot of money that we’re going to see a significant carbon tax if anyone ever because it’s it’s very difficult to get, political support for that. But I think that there, you know, there are a lot of moves afoot now that are going to result in regressive taxation on low and middle income Americans. There’s just no doubt about it.
Stuart Turley [00:33:01] Well.
Robert Bryce [00:33:01] Go back to the, you know, the docu series, that one of the points that I think is interesting is that when you look at, the, electricity price, our electricity availability and electricity. Right. What are what are consumers doing? They’re buying Generac. Well, you know, so because they know that the reliability of the grid is declining, well, the average household income for a Generac buyer is $145,000 a year. So what does that tell you? It tells you that wealthy folks can protect themselves, insulate themselves to some degree from these deleterious effects of this, of the this, undermining of the grid. Poor folks can’t, you know, low income folks don’t buy generators. They can’t afford them. You know, the electric vehicles I’ve been in the audio, I’ve been in the hood. But are there no Teslas in the audio? It’s people are just lucky that buy gasoline for their, you know, their older vehicles. They don’t own electric cars. So I look at all of this policy stew, nearly all of it with regard to the climate change. It’s all regressive. It all screws the poor in the middle class. So terrible for them.
Stuart Turley [00:34:04] You know, I’m sitting up here with my four buildings, and I’ve got two generators, and they’re out in the shop, and, the two generators can run. Any one of them can run 2 or 3 of the buildings. And so your answer is right. I can survive a, down grid. And I do have some solar just to keep it in case I can’t get gas or, you know, that kind of propane. So, I kind of like me. Some propane. Yeah. As long as you got three tanks, it’s not a bad thing.
Robert Bryce [00:34:36] Propane is Chris’s favorite hydrocarbon. So you can remind him of that.
Stuart Turley [00:34:40] Okay. Yeah. See? Three.
Robert Bryce [00:34:43] Three.
Stuart Turley [00:34:44] Yeah. It’s a great last mile. If you’re out in the middle of nowhere, you know, I’m. I’m out here, and we we got bears and mountain lions. And if if a zombie apocalypse happened, I would be okay with that. But now you’re in Austin, right? Yeah. I’m going to have to come by you a steak sometime, because I just really appreciate you and everything that you’re doing. So next time that you’re up in either the Dallas area as well. I’m also in, Abilene a bunch. My other offices is in Abilene, so I’m either in Abilene, Dallas or here. So, but I’m not traveling to India and all of the other places that you did in your first movie. So I got a little ways to catch up with you. What is coming around the corner from Robert Bryce?
Robert Bryce [00:35:39] Well, I hope just more of the same. Stu, I don’t, you know, I, what do I want? I want what I have, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t need a new car. I don’t want a new house. I want to keep doing what I’m doing. I’m what I do is my purpose in my passion. I, you know, I read about I talk about, I write about, speak about, the energy and power sectors, and that’s all I do. I’m, you know, I’m.
Stuart Turley [00:36:03] You’re good at it.
Robert Bryce [00:36:04] Very fortunate in my in my my life, in my family, my, you know, my kids are all healthy and happy. They’re grown. Got a, you know, wonderful woman. I’ve been married to almost 38 years, you know, so I’m incredibly fortunate. So I just want to be able to keep doing what I’m doing. And but I keep promoting this docu series because of all the effort we put into it. And so, I, I’m not it’s not that I don’t have ambition, but my ambition is just the to keep what I have that I don’t.
Stuart Turley [00:36:29] I.
Robert Bryce [00:36:29] Don’t need anything else. I don’t need a fancy gear car, I don’t need I just want to be able to keep doing what I’m doing.
Stuart Turley [00:36:34] I absolutely love that. And and when you’re you are absolutely fulfilling something critical. I’m also working with a bunch of, trying to get homeschooling, content for any podcast so that I can pay for content to give to homeschoolers because the education system is busted and not teaching facts. You know, they’re not teaching physics and they’re not teaching fiscal responsibility around energy. So I’m trying to marry that group as well, too, which is kind of fun. So, I can’t wait to. Also, by the time this airs, though, Robert, you and I would have already talked on the energy realities with, Irina Slav and, David Blackman and Tammy Nemeth. And I just want to again, thank you for stopping by the podcast today.
Robert Bryce [00:37:32] Oh, a pleasure, Stu. And, you know, happy to talk. Anytime. You know, we’re like minded on this. This is, this is what motivates us.
Stuart Turley [00:37:39] So, what was your website again?
Robert Bryce [00:37:42] I’m on subs, so you can’t miss me on the interweb. Stu. I’m easy to find. The docu series. Just the series.com. Did I mentioned use the series.com? Price.substack.com. I’m on Twitter at Power hungry. I’m on.
Stuart Turley [00:37:57] TikTok.
Robert Bryce [00:37:58] Yeah, I’m on TikTok.
Stuart Turley [00:38:00] At on.
Robert Bryce [00:38:01] Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube. You can’t miss me.
Stuart Turley [00:38:05] And I appreciate you. Thanks.
