Nuclear Truth vs. Renewable Myths: Dr. Gene Nelson Exposes California’s Energy Crisis

In this episode of Energy Newsbeat – Conversations in Energy, host Stu Turley sits down with Dr. Gene Nelson of Californians for Green Nuclear Power and the “Green Nuke” Substack to unpack how anti-nuclear ideology and California’s Public Utilities Commission are ignoring basic physics and economics. Dr. Nelson explains why overreliance on solar, wind, and batteries makes grids brittle—citing the April 28 blackout in Spain and idle nuclear plants taxed to prop up renewables—while nuclear delivers cheap, reliable, 24/7 power with strong safety records and massive “synchronous inertia” for heavy loads like California’s water system.

They dig into Diablo Canyon’s real-world performance and safety culture, debunk nuclear fearmongering, highlight the hidden costs, land use, waste, and subsidies behind wind and solar, and connect these policies to deindustrialization in places like Germany and California. Throughout, Dr. Nelson shares his on-the-ground advocacy, from farmers’ markets to PUC hearings, arguing that embracing nuclear is essential for energy reliability, national security, and an honest path forward on emissions.

Full Transcript:

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:00:07] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Energy Newsbeat Podcast. My name’s Stu Turley, President of C of the Sandstone Group. Today is a fantastic day. I’ve got a great friend of the show. I’ve got Dr. Gene Nelson, PhD, and he is here with Green Nuke Substack. He’s got a heck of a show lined up for us. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Nelson. How are you today?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:00:30] Very good Stu and also glad to be alive.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:00:33] Yeah. We were just chit chatting before the show and holy smokes Batman, you almost got bat rear ended by a pulling a trailer.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:00:41] Yeah, yeah. And and you know, I think in a lesser vehicle I wouldn’t be talking to you. I’d be dead.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:00:47] Oh, that’s not good. I am so glad you’re here. We need your expertise, believe me. Thank you. And let’s get started with your substack. I love your substack. It’s called the Green Nuke. And the article that prompted this podcast was CPUC. We don’t need no stinking physics or engineering. Okay, that title caught me. And then the subtitle is anti-nuclear power ideology and trumps physical principles at the California Public Utilities Commission, the CPUC. Gene, what were you telling us? What are you thinking here? Okay. So

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:01:25] the PUC unfortunately is I I would have to characterize this as an out of control bureaucracy. And it and it and it’s a huge bureaucracy. Its annual budget is on the order of a billion. That’s B billion dollars. It’s probably the most powerful state agency in California. And basically if you have a business, PUC is gonna be involved in that business.

 

Speaker 3 [00:01:49] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:01:50] And and unfortunately, there’s real big structural problems. And CGNP, Californians for Green Nuclear Power, has been fighting the PUC probably since our founding. But we really didn’t know that until we really started learning the whole process of becoming what’s called an intervener so that we can actually represent the public interest, represent the environment in proceedings involving Diablo Canyon power plant, which is what we’ve done. And we’ve we’ve filed thousands of pages of written testimony since we started in 2017. We also participate in oral evidentiary hearings. So we really have been very actively involved. And and there’s a really troubling backstory on what’s going on with the PUC. But let’s try to just focus. There’s too much to cover in one show. So we’re going to just focus on we don’t need no stinking physics or engineering, because that’s the real problem. They don’t want to admit that you really power grid in California or any place really obeys the laws of physics.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:03:02] You know, Dr. Nelson, I was sitting here talking to you before the show, and I’ve always said that the grid needs to obey the laws of physics, and it also has to have fiscal responsibility. But I love your substack. When I looked over here and I was sitting there going, I thought that Mel Brooks was the comedian that came up with I don’t need no stinking badges. And and I’m looking at this, going, wait a minute. And you had brought up in this substack where this I don’t need no stinking badges comes from. The paraphrase of the line, we don’t need no stinking badges, came from the nineteen forty-eight film The Treasure of Sierra Madre, actor Alfonso Bayoya by Bed Bedoya pictured above, said the line. And I I wow, that was so cool because I thought it was the Mel Brooks movie that brought that up.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:03:54] Right. Right, right. It really it was a it it entered popular culture in nineteen forty eight. And I think it really capsulizes a lot of the whole, you know, essentially, you know, anybody that’s arrogant says, We don’t need no stinking and fill in the blank. And that’s the problem with the PUC. They’re incredibly arrogant and they don’t want to pay attention to the laws of physics and they don’t want to pay attention to the laws of economics.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:04:24] What is the specific problems that you’re seeing there?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:04:26] Okay, so in California, we’ve had this, particularly since about 2010, this big push. We have to have lots of solar, we have to have lots of wind. And now they’re finally recognizing there’s this funny thing called night or calm winds. Oh, we need batteries too. And of course, it’s really it’s it’s it’s almost as bad as a Keystone cops because really this doesn’t it it never worked and it never will work, but they keep trying to push this narrative. And the narrative for me, I also kind of step back and I try to get the big picture. And the big picture is this whole thing about solar wind and batteries. To me, it’s communist China thought leadership. Why? Because it it increases the employment in communist China, where the supply chains for solar, wind, and batteries all start. So this is it’s it’s really a mercantilist perspective that that’s that’s what’s driving this thing. And if we look at Spain as an example, they they have a socialist government, PSOE, and that government has really pushed to number one, get rid of nuclear power, and number two, oh, we’re gonna do lots of wind and solar. And so there appears to have been a big push in in April of this year, April of twenty twenty five. Oh, the The PSOE government is going to show the world that a modern industrial society can be powered by solar and wind. Well, what happened? I happen to be up in Sacramento talking to legislators, and I hear the news. Massive blackout hit Spain and Portugal on April the 28th. And this happened at midday. This is the very first time in history that a blackout has been caused by pushing for solar and wind. What happens is the grid becomes I use the colloquial term brittle. It really becomes very, very unstable. So it’s kind of like imagine you know something just carefully at balance on a knife edge, and then just a little push one way or the other and it falls off the knife edge. And that’s what happened to the grid. This the Spanish and Portuguese grid collapsed completely in about 15 seconds. There was early war.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:06:51] And it was and it was was it because the nuclear plants, the natural gas plants had fallen out of synchronization? No.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:07:02] No, no. It was because the in particular, the nuclear, there were two perfectly good nuclear plants that morning that were standing idle. No way. They were standing idle. It gets worse. They were standing idle because Spain came up, you know, they recognize that there’s a r one of the problems, you know, getting back to that fiscal responsibility thing. One of the problems with solar and wind is they’re incredibly expensive. Besides for producing unreliable power, they’re also super super pricey. I know this because I’m an amateur radio operator. And so so I have to have all kinds of means to make sure that my radio works when there’s an emergency. So yes, I have solar panels. I know how expensive they are. I have a backup battery. I know how expensive that is. Those are all those are the kinds of things. But I also have propane powered generators. Not just one, but multiple generators, because I recognize that’s really what’s gonna I I’m gonna be able to handle emergency traffic. But it’s solar, super expensive. So what did Spain do? They said, Oh, what we’ll do is we’ll tax the most abundant and reliable form of power, which is nuclear. Right. Because it’s you know, the socialist government says, Oh, we’re supposed to be getting rid of of of nuclear as at least as long as we’re the industrialized West. Now, of course, if we’re a member of the BRICS nations, which is Brazil, Russia, India, China, etc. Oh, they can use all the nuclear they want, but the West, no, no, no, no, no. So so of course Germany is the first country that did that. They they actually turned off a very safe and reliable fleet of nuclear power plants. And now we have deindustrialization happening in in Germany, as well as just a huge economic crisis. It’s really horrible.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:08:53] You’re describing that that whole process of following net zero and killing nuclear is actually counterintuitive because nuclear is net zero, but they’re using net zero as the excuse.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:09:08] Right. But the thing is it’s dispatchable and it’s reliable and it’s not made in communist China. Right. So that’s why that’s that’s why they said, no, no, no, you can’t do that. And and of course, you know, they’re gonna exaggerate the f the the risks of nuclear power and point to Chernobyl or Fukushima Daiichi or Three Mile Islands. No, let’s let’s go to Three Mile Island because I like that one. I was earning my doctorate in radiation biophysics when Three Mile Island occurred.

 

Speaker 3 [00:09:38] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:09:38] And I was aware at that time there were no injuries from radiation. There were no deaths from radiation in nineteen seventy nine from that that partial meltdown of a nuclear power plant on Three Mile Island.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:09:53] All the safety features work.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:09:54] Yes, absolutely. But the fearmongers really had a field day. And as a result, one of the, you know, one of the side consequences of that was my chances of being employed pretty much went to zero, which is exactly what happened. I had to go out of the field.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:10:13] Do you remember the China syndrome movie?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:10:15] Oh I most certainly do. I have a copy of it. That’s right. Exactly. So you you almost wonder anyway.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:10:23] Was it was it intentional and it was will we ever?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:10:26] I think that if the big problem with Three Mile Island, I’ve actually done, I’ve reviewed the post-mortem. The flaw was inadequate operator training. So again, the it the nuclear power industry has figured out they learned from their mistakes. So one of the things that now, if you look at any nuclear power plant, they always have a simulator. And that simulator is available 24-7. And so they use that to train and drill so that so that the operators are actually prepared for any plausible accident sequence. So, as an example, we’ll go to December 1st, 2018, Diablo Canyon power plant. It’s a sunny morning in December, a Saturday. And the they had been steadily adding more and more solar power plants in the area here. So what happened was the instrumentation falsely thought that a conductor had broken on one of the their feeds coming that connect Diablo Canyon to the main AC backbone. They thought one of those the special protection circuit thought that one of those lines was broken, scrammed the reactor. The operators were drilled, drilled, and drilled. So as a result, after inspecting the plant, which took less than five days, they’re bringing it back up. And that wouldn’t happen. And of course, you know, they found everything worked the way it was supposed to work. So it was a nothing burger. But it was a nothing burger because of that relentless drilling. Twenty percent of an operator’s time now is spent in the simulator and they’re carefully watched and coached. I mean it’s just if and of course where

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:12:10] Twenty percent of a operator’s time at a nuclear facility is spent in training.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:12:18] Yes. And that goes on continuously. And that really came out from Hyman Rickover’s nuclear navy, which also, again, if you look at injuries from radiation, injury or deaths from radiation in the nuclear navy, which started more than fifty years ago, it’s zero.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:12:37] And you take a nineteen year old kid, Dr. Nelson, and and and teach him how to be a nuclear person engineer type working on a nuclear sub, it’s a fantastic type system.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:12:49] Yes. But but they actually they do IQ testing before that. So you’re looking they they definitely take really very well qualified people to do it. It’s not just anybody off the street.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:13:00] Me at nineteen would not qualify. Okay.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:13:02] Okay. Well me at nineteen, you know, if I’d known what I know now, I would have I I probably would have signed up as a sub driver.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:13:09] Oh there.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:13:10] You go. And but at nineteen that was nineteen seventy see, seventy one for me, yeah. So it was a it was definitely a challenging time for our country. We had, you know, Kent State it happened and all that stuff.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:13:22] So what are you doing for Diablo Canyon? ‘Cause I love Diablo Canyon had just shut down for I believe a week or two just a week while they were refueling it.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:13:31] No, no. It takes it takes about a month.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:13:34] A month.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:13:34] And what they do is, you know, they’re doing service operations. Right. So unit two is I think that outage is still underway right now. I I could

 

Speaker 3 [00:13:43] Okay.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:13:44] But that is they always do it during the fall or spring so that we’re not hitting the big loads which would happen in either the winter or or in summer.

 

Speaker 3 [00:13:54] Okay.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:13:54] So so that those those outages are when they they do all the things that would typically be done with the reactor being shut off. But what I’ve learned, and this is a little bit interesting about how rugged human beings are, they occasionally have to send a human being into the containment while the reactor is operating. And they can do that. Again, they have to they have to you know watch their dose, but it can happen. So if there’s a compelling need, if they can’t do it robotically or whatever, you can send a person in and you, you know, that they’re gonna use up some of their dose and they’re allowed 500 millirads. I think somebody anyway, I’ve I’ve forgotten my numbers, haven’t looked at that in a while. But but basically, it’s basically taking the equivalent of like 500 CT scans. And I know about that because I actually had to have CT scans run. They wanted to make sure nothing was broken after that accident on Monday night. Oh, nice. So so I I went to the hospital, I was transported by ambulance, and my wife came up with her neighbor with our neighbor, very kind, because it’s more than a hundred mile trip to come from San Luis Obispo up to Salinas. And basically we hung around in the hospital most of the night and finally.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:15:07] I mean, I’m so glad you’re okay. Your your poor car is totaled though.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:15:12] Yeah, yeah. So so if anybody knows of of of a spare Toyota I have a had had past tense, a RAV four. It’s really a wonderful vehicle. It did its job and I’m in the market looking for a replacement that the insurance will pay for a two thousand five. So it’s a you know, or you know, something of that similar cost. But I definitely want a RAV four because they’re really built very, very solidly. And you’re still here. I’m still here. Both airbags went off and you know, the front end got mashed in, the back end got mashed in. But all four doors open and closed normally. Wow. That means the passenger

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:15:48] That means the passenger area that went in, but I mean they they really constructed that it’s not like the Ford Bronco that is now on the road, which is the worst car on the road right now for passenger safety. I believe if you get two mosquitoes hitting on the bumper in the back, it squishes it like a accordion. So I mean it’s it’s some horrible number. I I was like, whoa. Hey, for our podcast listeners, Dr. Gene Nelson is here with us, but he’s also got a green headband on, and we were talking right before the show, and I absolutely love this. He is talked about in the book Atomic Dreams: the New Nuclear Evangelist and the fight for the future of energy by Rebecca Matthew. And I am so excited. I’m gonna reach out to her too. I’d love to interview her as well.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:16:40] She’s she is so sweet. She’s so there’s a chapter about me in this in this book. It’s called The Guy in the Headband, and that’s my trademark. It’s a green headband. Green for Californians for green nuclear power. And a headband, because I was a long distance runner. I did over twenty five thousand miles in my life. I’m a militant anti smoker. And you know, I I recognize there’s nobody better qualified to take care of myself than me.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:17:08] There you go. Especially when a don’t get a Bronco. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:17:13] Yeah, yeah. And there oh anyway, so Rebecca includes in the chapter, she talks about my interacting with people at the slow downtown farmers market. I’ll be going there tonight in San Luis Obispo, and we’ve had a booth there since twenty seventeen. And it’s basically a way to reach out to the public. And when we first started, they anti tried to intimidate us into leaving, but we didn’t leave. And now they rarely bother us because basically they know they don’t have the facts on their side. And you know, when you’re dealing with somebody like myself with a PhD in radiation and biophysics, their fear mongering doesn’t work.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:17:55] No.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:17:56] Yeah.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:17:56] I’ll tell you, you brought up Dr. Nelson, you brought up a couple huge points that really set home to me today. When we take a look at the trading blocks around the world, I’ve been talking about how they’re changing when the Russian war ends. And I think that you’re going to see more business with India as it the United States and India and everything else. And I think that if they’re in, as we mentioned, the net zero policies, you’re going to see the continued deindustrialization of let’s take Volkswagen out of Germany. They are now saying that they can do better by having more of their manufacturing done in China. Why would you want to buy a Mercedes that was built in China when the Chinese are now notorious for putting in things that can shut remotely shut down either the grid, the components, or your car? Why would you want to buy a German car? But I’m talking about the deindustrialization of Germany, the UK, the EU, and Canada. They’re going to continue to move their manufacturing to China, we are reindustrializing as the United States. I think that we are gonna really reindustrialize, but we’re gonna turn our trading to Russia, Saudi Saudi Arabia, all of those areas, as well as India. We’re gonna have Japan really trading with us. Well, it’s gonna be a whole change in here.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:19:27] Yeah, there’s a big big shift underway. But one of the things that I’m really pleased to see as a scientist is the pushback against so called net zero, because it really is it’s just a propaganda campaign. And it’s a propaganda campaign that basically its premises are empty because the the claim was, Oh yeah, we can we can reduce emissions and and it’ll be less costly too. No. Right. Super, super expensive. It’s super super unreliable. And when you compensate for it being unreliable, you end up with much higher cost. So even one of the Bibles of Solar and Wind, which is Lazard, an insurance company.

 

Speaker 3 [00:20:11] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:20:12] They invented this concept or they promoted this concept called LCOE or levelized cost of energy. And that was designed to make solar and wind look good. But they were forced to say, oh gee, there’s this thing called night. There’s this times when the wind isn’t blowing to produce full power. And we have to integrate this crap power, crap meaning just really low quality power that you get from solar wind and batteries. Right. You have to integrate it with the grid and it costs a whole bunch of money. So there’s now something called LCOE plus. And I recommend you look at that because what you find out is that when you in when you include grid integration cost, suddenly that cheap solar and that cheap wind becomes super expensive, just like it’s you know, that’s what we’d expect. And that’s really and and and then they also admit, oh, by the way, if we extend the operation of a nuclear power plant, it’s super inexpensive. Exactly. So they they’re showing extended extended operation at $32 a megawatt hour. Now, for those of us those of you in the listening audience that don’t know a megawatt hour, that’s a thousand kilowatt hours. It’s basically how power is wholesaled. And and and so for thirty-two dollars, that’s three point two cents a kilowatt hour. That’s really inexpensive. For a wholesale cost. And power purchase agreements, this this thing called Ivanpaw, you probably talked about it on your show once or twice. Their their PPA power purchase agreement with Pacific Gas and Electric was two hundred dollars a megawatt hour. Two hundred dollars.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:21:58] You know, there’s a the AI data race that the AI data center race that’s going on right now. I was hopeful back in nineteen seventy-seven when I wrote my high school paper on fission or fusion, which would be better. And I was hopeful back then that we would be all nuclear by now, but that was back then. But when we sit back and take a look at where the China has put out two coal plants a month, they’ve put out they’ve got two a week. Excuse me, two a week. Thank you. They’ve got 10 new nuclear plants that they have got already approved and under construction. They will be at 60, I believe 62 to 64 nuclear plants with this year. I mean, within the next year. Unbelievable growth in nuclear. And within three to four years, they could pass our ninety-two. I believe we have ninety-two reactors. They could pass us very quickly.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:23:00] Right. And this was technologies that was invented in the United States and developed in the United States. But they’re good at copying things that work. And nuclear power plants work really, really well. And they recognize the need for twenty four seven reliable power with lots of synchronous grid inertia. So I’m hoping you’re gonna ask me the question, what is synchronous grid inertia?

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:23:25] Well you now that you bring that up, what is

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:23:27] that okay so so let’s let’s think about the there’s two parts to it’s a synchronous part so if you think about for example you’ve got somebody you’re pushing on a swing you give precise pushes to increase the amplitude of their their swinging on the swing so there’s a timing involved and the same thing works for nucle for for the for any power grid where you have multiple generators they all want you want them to all be running perfectly in synchrony with each other so they’re all pushing at the same time they’re pulling at the same time and if you don’t if they’re just a little bit off I’ve learned from from some senior people that work in the industry there’s a really dramatic thing that happens the out of sync generator will get ripped off out of the floor. I mean it’s because we’re dealing with just huge forces and it becomes a motor it becomes a motor and it will get ripped out of the floor. So they really work very very hard to to make sure they’re absolutely in sync they they use very sophisticated mechanisms to make sure

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:24:33] And the frequency and the frequency of the grid, if I understood this correctly, is sixty sixty gigahertz. Sixty hertz. Sixty hertz, thank you. Sixty hertz. On the US grid, fifty in the European, and then Japan is f is half sixty and half fifty, depending on where they bought their gear.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:24:52] Yeah. Yeah, it’s it’s a very strange situation, but the the the the important thing is everybody runs on a grid at the same frequency and they’re all precisely timed with each other. So what happens when you have sink when you have synchronous grid inertia, I like to describe it as you got muscle.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:25:12] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:25:12] You’ve got muscle to move huge loads. So in in California, the biggest load we have is the Edmund pumping plant. And its job is to move State Water Project water. Wow. That it gets pushed over the Tehachapis. Almost it gets pushed up almost two thousand feet. And what they have is eighty thousand horsepower mo motors with four stage pumps. So and there’s not just one of these. No, there’s fourteen of them. That’s a lot of horsepower. That’s a lot of horsepower. There are dedicated power plants that are designed to keep that plant running. And wow. To give you an idea of the total power demand for Edmondst when it’s running full out, you’re looking at a a fraction of one of the Diablo Canyon power plant reactors. I mean, you need really serious power, but what are you doing? You’re allowing Southern California to have adequate water. And without water, I know if I grew up in Southern California, it’s a desert. End of story.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:26:18] This is a bigger issue than I thought. This is I’m having about 15 epiphanies while I’m talking to you. This is a huge conversation.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:26:27] Yeah, it’s but it’s really important. So what would happen and and I have done the thought experiment, what would happen if you took solar panels and you hooked them up to this giant pumping plant? And let’s say you matched the volts and amps that you needed. Well, because it doesn’t have muscle, you would just burn out those pumps. That’s all. You just burn them out. Wow. Because they wouldn’t be turning and they actually it turns out that.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:26:57] It would just fry ’em.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:26:58] It just fries them. That’s right. So so it really that’s I’m not really trying to just be negative when I say it’s crap power. It really is useless. And it’s to give you an idea, if you actually take a grid that doesn’t have wind and solar on it, right, that grid has lower emissions than the grid with solar and wind. It’s counter you know it’s say that again.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:27:24] Say that again. That is a huge issue that I’ve been suspecting for a long time.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:27:32] Right. So again to repeat, if you have a grid that doesn’t have wind and solar on it, it’s going to be less emissions. And also, by the way, it’s gonna cost it’s gonna cost less than if you have solar and wind on it. Now you you ask why? Well, it turns out that when we have solar and wind, they’re erratically turning on and off, right? Right. And that means that you have to have the to firm the grid to make sure that it’s actually meeting the demands that are needed, you have to be constantly turning generators on and off. Now

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:28:09] Cyc cycling of engines is huge.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:28:13] And and and again you think about the difference between operating a vehicle under cruise control at highway speeds, you use less gas, gasoline, than if you were in city stop and go driving. The same thing happens basically generators are are heat engines just like the power plant in your car or truck.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:28:35] Wow. Dr. Nelson, when my dad was he retired as chief of staff of the Eighth Air Force, and he was telling me that when he was in Vietnam and they would do a hot standby plane swit switch on a F four, he would they would sit there and they would measure the hour, the cycles of that engine rather than hours on the engine. Absolutely. Absolutely. The numbers of time that the engine is shut on, turned on, and turned off is the maintenance schedule for those things because as long as they’re running, they’re not having the same demand characteristics as on or off.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:29:13] Right. And so think about a big generator. Have you been to Diablo Canyon yet?

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:29:18] No, but I want to.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:29:19] Okay, so we’ll we’re gonna have to work on that, Stu, because I have some inside contacts and I can probably make that happen. But I’d love that. That’d be great. Give me some times and dates and things like that. We’re in the process of organizing one right now. Okay. But the Diablo Canyon Power Plant Hall, it’s its length is more than two football fields in length. And there are two generators powered by steam. Right. That are that are producing one tenth of all of California’s power. Right. One tenth of the and we’re talking about dispatchable, high quality power. And that really, you know, you have to wear hearing protection because it’s so noisy in there. Sure. But it’s clean and

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:30:04] Do you know Doug Sandridge by any chance?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:30:06] I’ve heard the name.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:30:07] Doug Sandridge is a oil and gas executive that created oil and gas executives for and support of nuclear. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I I would love to drag him along.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:30:19] With that because he wanted to I’m sure he would love love to see that plant because it really is amazing to see this thing. And what’s also significant, just to give you a little bit of a spoiler alert, you won’t see lots of people scurrying around with clipboards or whatever. No, this thing is really it there’s a very competent team in the control room.

 

Speaker 3 [00:30:42] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:30:43] And you get to look through a window and see it’s bulletproof glass, but you can look through the window and see them at work. But it really is it takes the the number of people in charge of it are small. Most of the work is done when the plant is shut down and it shuts down every roughly every eighteen months.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:31:02] Oh.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:31:02] Yeah.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:31:05] Do we go through the simulator? ‘Cause I want to pretend I’m James T. Kirk and trying to solve the Kobayashi Maru to make sure that I can I can solve the unsolvable problem. Wouldn’t that be great?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:31:15] That’d be great fun. Okay. So so the so the the the simulator is really cool because among other things, one of the scenarios is earthquake. Yep. So they have big subwoofers in there. You can feel the rumble from the simulator. And then everything all you know, all the lights up and the the the rods drop and so forth. But let’s look at reality. And reality was recently illustrated, and one we shared this in one of our filings. There was a I think it was a magnitude four point six earthquake closer to Diablo Canyon than the 2003 quake, which was San Simeon. Now that quake was powerful enough, it killed two in Paso Robles.

 

Speaker 3 [00:31:57] Oh so sorry.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:31:58] Unreinforced masonry buildings. Everything fell down and they went rushing outside and they got crushed. But the place where I’d wanna be in the if when the big one hits, ’cause it’s gonna hit when the big one hits California.

 

Speaker 3 [00:32:13] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:32:13] Be at deplocing because it’s built so incredibly ruggedly. And they’ve done really careful what’s called structural analysis to make sure that those frequencies that are generated by the earthquake aren’t going to cause failure of any critical safety system.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:32:32] The the engineering that they’ve done there is is phenomenal. I every I follow the Diablo Canyon, you know, LinkedIn and SubSag or all their all their posts that I put out there. I I enjoy watching what they’re doing. They seem like they’re just our rock stars.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:32:48] Yes, they really are. The plant itself, I I did work there for three weeks in ja in in April of two thousand and seven as as a PhD radiation biophysicist. I was hired as a laborer. Nice. So I was pushing broom and pouring concrete, but I was rad worker qualified. That was easy because of my training. But I have you have to be rad worker qualified to do anything inside the plant. Right. And again, what I learned was people want to come to Diablo Canyon because the plant is so clean and it’s so well run. So back on July seventeenth, I participated in a special tour. I we had two people from the California Public Utilities Commission and myself. That was the those were the the the guests were just those three people. And it was just such an incredible tour. But but one of the things they they kind of did some stuff in I have to say it was kind of understated, but when you thought about it, said, Oh yeah. So we actually had to go through not one, not two, but three portal detectors to look for radiation. Every single person that’s inside the what’s called the radiologically controlled area has to go through that scrutiny. And there was there was no counts. No counts. So that’s that’s really that’s really about housekeeping more than anything, but of course also doing everything right.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:34:15] And then our nuclear fleet has done been done so well, especially with our military. I love the I can’t remember the name of the project, but we have eight, I believe eighteen new nuclear reactors that are being scheduled to be deployed on Air Force bases in the United States very quickly. And I believe that they’re rolling on those. I did interview J U, who is the founder of nano nuclear and the CEO. He is both of those guys are very, very cool guys. And I love the way nanonuclear is is looking at they have their permitting process done in three waves right now, Dr. Nelson. They have two nuclear reactors that are under permit and approved and moving forward. They have two plants so they can mass produce these micro reactors underway, and they’re doing it at the same time. And they have the fuel already in the approval process so they can move the fuel, the factory, and the things. They’re the only one that I know of that’s doing it at that speed. We need nuclear at speed.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:35:25] We do and but you also have to appreciate that if we look at small reactors, so called micro reactors, turns out we’ve been US has been doing that process from day one of the nuclear navy. All micro reactors, every single one of them.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:35:42] And they’ve been running very successfully.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:35:44] Running very successfully. But in order to have that sustained chain reaction, your enrichment level for the fuel has to go higher. And that’s why, as you point out with nanonuclear, you have to be developing new fuel that has a higher enrichment level.

 

Speaker 3 [00:36:00] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:36:01] That’s that and that’s certainly that’s new regulations and new processes and we we have to make sure it it’s done absolutely right.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:36:09] Where do you see the biggest holdup for Secretary Chris Wright to be able to deliver nuclear fleet upgrades?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:36:18] I I would say that it’s really about education. It’s educating people about how reliable and safe nuclear power is. And it’s that really is something that the industry has done, I have to say, a terrible job at. Because they talk about, you know, whenever we talk about, oh, look at all these engineered safety systems and things. And what that does for somebody that doesn’t know about this stuff, oh, this must be scary if there’s all these these engineered safety systems. And just

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:36:49] Well doctor Dr. Nelson, do you think that the the the peop people are waking up to the fact that the fact that Three Mile Island is firing back up is gigantic. I think that that is one of the best things that can happen for the US nuclear fleet because I think that will help do exactly what you do every week out there at that carnival or the outdoor mall that you go to. Right, right. And you stand there and you defend nuclear and while you’re out there. Right. And and there when you look at and you get crayon and you get a crayon, you get your math out, and you start figuring out there is really it’s safe.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:37:32] Yes.

 

Speaker 3 [00:37:40] Wow.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:37:41] And if you look at the death rate for that, you find out that even when we include Chernobyl and look worldwide, you’re looking at nuclear being the same order of magnitude as solar and wind. Because unfortunately, there are deaths associated with solar and wind. And the one that that immediately comes to my mind when I think about deaths with wind was there was a malfunctioning wind generator in the Netherlands in 2013. And so they sent two young workers, each with families, up to the top of this and well, see if you can figure out what’s wrong. And so they’re up in this thing and it catches fire. And it catches fire, and there there were fire trucks down below. But because these things are so tall, none of their ladders could reach they couldn’t help them. They couldn’t help them, and they you couldn’t use a helicopter because of the downdraft causes problems. And of course you got this big blade that’s also there as a as a as an obstacle.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:38:42] Oh yeah.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:38:43] So one of the workers jumped to his death and the other was incinerated at the top. So that right there is two more people than have died in the entire history of the US nuclear power industry.

 

Speaker 3 [00:38:56] Wow.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:38:57] And this this there are lots of there there apparently have been hundreds of things like that that have occurred with the wind industry.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:39:03] And we haven’t even approached this the the topic of land use. Oh yeah. Of land use in a per square mile megawatt generated on nuclear is just unheard of. It’s right there, you know, unbelievable. Natural gas, great, it’s there as well. But when you look at the amount of territory that is used by wind farms and the damage by solar panels.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:39:30] Yeah. Wow. It’s it’s really, really horrible. But the question, you know, again, we’re kind of doing streaming of consciousness here, but one of the things that pops into my mind when you talk about land use and solar panels is in eastern San Luis Obispo County, there’s a thing called Topaz Solar. It covers about seven point eight square miles. It’s owned by Berkshire Hathaway. Why does Berkshire Hathaway own it? Well, because of the tax breaks. The taxpayer funded tax breaks is why they operate both solar and wind. And so it’s not because they’re good for the environment. And so so Warren Buffett was quoted in Newsweek in in twenty thirteen, I think it was, that the only reason why Berkshire Hathaway runs solar and wind is because of the taxpayer funded tax breaks. And I I’ve a a fellow updated that a couple of months ago. He said, If it don’t blow money, we’re not interested. And it’s really tragic.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:40:32] You bring up three other really good points there. And that is you keep you talk and good points just fall out. That’s kind of cool. The point with Warren Buffett is spot on and the Inflation Reduction Act or the Porculus bill that is now ended, as Dan Bongino calls it, the porculus bill, the subsidies are gonna dry up. And as those subsidies dry up, I’ve been made aware that they have nameplate capacity and they’ve been using that where they will replace in a upgrade to get a new turbine put in. If it breaks, they put in a new turbine and call it an upgrade so they can use maintenance dollars in a couple every couple of years on these things. And that’s what they’ve been triple double dipping, triple dipping, and all this stuff in there.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:41:22] The industry nomenclature is repowering. Thank you. So basically what happens is you’re you’re usually you get about ten years of subsidies, and at the end of those ten years, oh gee, we’ll repower this, and of course then they can do it all again. So it’s

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:41:39] And it’s now going to be a problem. I’ve calculated to start, we need eighty nine billion dollars to do land reclamation for the wind turbines in the United States to start. That’s only to start taking these things down.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:41:57] Yep, because there it right unlike nuclear power, which actually they fund the decommissioning of nuclear power plants with that with the power that’s generated, they there is no such obligation.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:42:10] Part of the part of the upfront and and and wind and solar executives say, why do we want to put land reclamation in our projects? Because it turns it even with subsidies to totally unfundable.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:42:24] Right, right. But if you want to look at the consequence, I’ve I had friends that lived near the Tehachapis.

 

Speaker 3 [00:42:31] Yeah.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:42:32] In in high desert California. So I went up and looked at that wind generation area there. And it just it’s really sad to see all this rusted out wind turbines. There’s you know the the they’re not turning, but they’re ugly as you know what because there’s no money to take them down.

 

Speaker 3 [00:42:51] Right.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:42:51] And it just really is such eyesores. And of course, you know, with solar, what happens particularly, you know, here in California, we we put a lot of them in the desert, well, they get sandblasted. Right. And also the solar panels wear out. And so then you get this huge volume of waste that stays toxic forever because there’s heavy metals, things like arsenic.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:43:13] We r we recycle less than five percent of the solar panels that wear out after a few years. Right. Right. And the rest of them we ship overseas.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:43:23] Right. And then they eventually get landfilled. And of course they’re toxic. It’s toxic landfills that stay toxic forever.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:43:31] So we just described your what you had on your great Substack article. We don’t need no stinking toxic waste pile over there. I mean, this is absolutely a full circle.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:43:44] It’s so unethical because it’s being branded as this is supposed to be good for the environment when the reality is nope, this is really bad news for the environment. And when we compare and contrast that with nuclear power, we’ve only used five percent of the power in that fuel. So we carefully isolate it from the environment in these things called is interim storage facility installations. And that material, its economic value, I would assert, is on the order of that with gold, because we still can tap that energy.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:44:25] I couldn’t agree more, sir. And and I interviewed the CEO of Copenhagen Atomics and Thomas Jam is a is a really neat guy. They are looking at being able to use nuclear waste for their fuel.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:44:40] Absolutely. And it’s it’s it’s there was a guy named Alvin Weinberg and he ran the Oak Ridge lab. And so he actually had something called the Molten Salt Reactor Experiment or MSRE, and it accumulated something like thirteen thousand hours of operation over a a long period of time while he was still in charge of the plant. And President Reagan came along and said, Oh, that stuff is it’s burning plutonium. We don’t want that. And he shut the thing down. Okay, but the story doesn’t end there. This is actually now being commercialized by the Chinese communists.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:45:15] Oh snap.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:45:17] Yeah, snap indeed. Yep. To me just total insanity and most of it has to do with this this dogma that says that nuclear power is bad. And there isn’t there is not truth to that statement.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:45:33] Does the left or the Green Energy New Deal folks really understand that if they embraced nuclear, they could get their their EVs faster? Because if they’re if they really want to think about it, the EVs are powered by coal and natural gas right now. We have the ninety-two that is only ballpark seventeen percent, whatever our nuclear fleet.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:45:59] We can use twenty percent. Let’s we make it easier to calculate.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:46:02] Twenty percent of nuclear fleet.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:46:05] The US power comes from our nuclear fleet. Thank you.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:46:10] And and so when you take a look at that twenty percent, you have a eighty percent chance that you’re either running a natural gas or coal.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:46:18] Right. And and of course, you know, let’s take let’s consider California and we’re gonna go to Los Angeles. Los Angeles Department of Water and Power operates the eighteen hundred megawatt inner mountain power plant near Delta, Utah. And then they have a direct line that takes that power and sends it to Southern California. So that inner mountain plant is powered by coal. And so you’re charging up your EV with inner mountain power plant, coal powered electricity. Hey, what’s the environmental benefit of that? Nope.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:46:49] But Gavin said a couple months ago, I don’t have no coal in California. I don’t have no coal in

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:46:55] California. That’s right. That’s right. And it’s all out of state. And so it’s it’s called outsourcing pollution. And it’s and California has a they’re the only state that has a legal euphemism called unspecified power. And unspecified power, it’s like we don’t want to know where it came from, but it’s coal. And it was that was that legal euphemism was created by the coal power industry.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:47:22] You know, it’s it’s kind of like when Gavin imported two weeks ago a a couple tankers, I believe it was a tanker, maybe even more, of jet fuel from that was refined in in India. And I tracked it down. The last five tankers that hit that Indian refinery were from Russia. That’s a lot of CO2 being put in. They’re supposed to be green energy folks and they’re importing jet fuel from India.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:47:52] And of course one of the sources of the petroleum that’s used by both India and and China is Iran.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:48:00] It well, Iraq, Iran both interact with each other in trading in the dark fleet. There are fifteen hundred Dark Fleet tankers. They all park in Malaysia right now is the major spot for them to now flip everything back and forth. It’s a mess, and Gavin Newsom has really eviscerated California’s entire energy policies.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:48:24] Right. And and and and one of the things I’m I I’m sure you’ve talked about this on your show, about the idea that California has a specific kind of RFG. That’s a reformulated gas that’s created in California refineries, but those refineries, they’re pushing them out of business. They’re making it hard for those refineries to continue to operate. So they’re closing down. So now the plan is that they’re gonna get that from Cinopec. Do you know what Cinopec is?

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:48:53] It is China’s refinery system.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:48:55] Refiners. So so the idea is we’re gonna get something that’s so vital for our economy from our enemy. Do you think that that’s a good idea? Well, if you do, just look at Russia and its use of natural gas as a means to to lever Germany into not opposing Russia’s grab of Ukraine starting in twenty fourteen.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:49:19] That’s a whole nother podcaster. Oh yes, yes, it is.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:49:21] Oh yes, yes it is. But it’s but it’s really showing the how incredibly important energy is because energy and economy they’re pretty much so tightly interwoven. And when I got in people

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:49:34] That have left California because of the over regulatory problems and the taxes has been unbelievable.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:49:41] It is really tragic, I think. You know, here I am in in San Luis Obispo. I’m I’m quote unquote retired, but I’m instead putting in huge amounts of time and energy donating it because I look and I see what’s what they’re proposing to do and it’s just so totally nonsensical.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:50:02] Wow.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:50:03] And again, the the PUC is an executive branch agency in California. It was started with the noblest of intentions. It was actually originally the Railroad Commission formed in 1918. And that was because the railroads, people like Leland Stanford, were were gouging businesses because they basically had a monopoly on moving the freight. And so the Railroad Commission basically said, Okay, you’re now regulated industries and we’re going to be making sure you you don’t gouge. Well, what’s happened since then is that bureaucracy now is completely captured by By the by special interests and those special interests don’t have the interests of Californians. They’re way, way down on the primary Yeah. So as a result, California has the dubious distinction and most of at most of the time, their power is the most expensive per kilowatt hour in the continental United States. So we’re excluding Alaska and we’re excluding Hawaii.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:51:09] Hawaii’s a whole nother sad story.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:51:11] Exactly. And it and again, they’ve they’re caught up in the same kind of nonsense as California and New York and several other blue states. And the bottom line is it’s becoming expensive. Now, what happens when power is expensive? There is there is some elasticity to to the demand, but it’s essentially inelastic. So so what happens is you do kind of push down consumption a little bit, and then you can say, oh, well, look, we’ve reduced emissions because we’ve made this power uneconomical. We’ve driven away business. Well, we’ve reduced emissions, and that’s so important. We don’t care about the fact that we then have to jack up taxes because those businesses that were supporting the state government, they left for Texas or places like that.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:52:04] I I’ll tell you what’s fun is I I see who is reading my websites and everything else by location. Right. And my two biggest states are New York and California. Right. And I it is so fun to see that people are really want the truth about energy. They’re tired of of listening to mainstream media.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:52:27] Yep. And mainstream media is bought and sold. It’s really you know, I I I I was visiting a fellow another member of California’s for green nuclear power a few days ago and I actually sat down and watched a few minutes of network news and it was just So, you know, I I’m glad that I don’t watch it. It really is so that you can tell there’s so much narrative control. And I think it’s much better that we we do have things like your energy podcast to actually let people know what’s really going on rather than what the corporate masters want us to believe is going on.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:53:04] I’ll tell you what, well, how do people get a hold of you, Dr. Nelson? Because I know if somebody listens to this podcast, like I said yesterday I had a podcast and it went out and then within hours they were getting phone calls and saying, Hey, we need help. So I love being able to do that. How do people reach

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:53:21] Okay, so there’s a few different ways. My preferred way is by cell phone. And my my cell phone is actually on the website, but I’m gonna read it to you here on the air and and I’ll also tell you what my protocol is.

 

Speaker 3 [00:53:35] Okay.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:53:35] There is area code eight zero five three six three four six nine seven. And if I don’t if you’re not in my contact list, I’m gonna just let it go to voicemail and

 

Speaker 3 [00:53:47] Yeah.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:53:47] So leave a complete message. Please include your contact information at least twice. And I’ll get back to you right, right, you know, very very quickly after your call. Then of course, email, you can reach me at C G N P. That’s Californians for Green Nuclear Power. And my email address is government G-O-V-E-R-N-M-E-N-T at NP dot org. So those again, that’s also on the website, the CGNP website. But but so we have a website that also has a place for donations. So you can look in the about page of CGNP, again cgnp.org, go to about, and you you can see how you can make donations to because we’re we’re a nonprofit. We’ve had a f over our history, we’ve had a few generous private donors. And we had one, and I count this one, we were entitled to some intervenor compensation from the PUC back in 2018. We received a substantial chunk of money, about a quarter million dollars. Nice. But since then, since the industry figured out, oh yeah, we’re we are we’re telling the truth. Right. Like that. And of course, the PUC is very much as I said, a captured bureaucracy. So as a result, we haven’t received a penny, despite going through all the procedures since late 2018. Wow. And and and of course You know, the the PUC knows about CGNP and in particular they know about this guy in the headband and they don’t like us at all. And so so there’s another one thing on the Green Nook Substack about the PUC on that same tour that I was talking about at Diablo Canyon, where the administrative law judge, Jack Chang, he ordered me to stop talking at what he asked a question, said I don’t want to hear from you. I want to hear from PG and E. Wow. And that’s the kind of that’s called lack of judicial temperament to be that rude.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:55:48] That’s nuts.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:55:49] And and and and unfortunately from what you know, I d I dug into his background and I actually filed a motion to have him taken off as the administrative diologist. Now I knew that that was an exercise in futility, but I wanted to make a statement. Sure statement that these folks really aren’t well qualified and they certainly aren’t doing a good job because I I also found out that he was actually just finishing up his doctorate. He’s a non traditional student, bravo to him for that. So he’s around age sixty. And he just finished his doctorate this year.

 

Speaker 3 [00:56:23] Nice.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:56:23] At least he finished. Yeah, good that he finished. But unfortunately, I argued in in the proceeding, in in my motion, hey, you the the when you look at Cal HR, one of their requirements for an administrative law judge, they’re supposed to have one year legal experience after they’ve earned either a jurisdictor or wouldn’t have had that because he just earned his doctorate. So he’s so I argued that he’s not qualified to be and of course they said, Oh, we we carefully vetted everybody that well, of course, you know, it’s a whitewash.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:56:58] Nice. Of course, the rules don’t apply to them.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:57:03] We don’t need no stinkin’ rules.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:57:05] Until you apply. Right. Right. And then and as soon as you apply, they’re gonna make sure that you we can’t allow a green headband.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:57:13] Right, right. Or something like that. It’s it’s there we can’t allow the truth is the big problem with the PUC. And

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:57:19] Well, I’ll tell you what, this has been a fantastic discussion and I truly appreciate our friendship and our time. I’m gonna have all of your contact information in the show notes and I wanna make sure that people can get a hold of you. And I want you back again when we get ready for the next podcast because I’ve got about sixteen items that I’m thinking about.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:57:42] That you brought up. Thank you. Thank you. This is stuff. This has become my life. I’ve donated around thirty thousand hours to this project pro bone since twenty sixteen. My wife is saying in the background because of course our budget is really ruined by the fact that I’m spending so much time on this project. But I this is my legacy.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:58:03] And and the consumers that are aware of it will appreciate you. Yes, yes. Because you what you’re doing is needed for California. California is in a energy national security crisis right now. That’s right. And you are needed. Your voice is a voice of reason, Dr. Nelson. I do appreciate it.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:58:26] Thank you. And and of course the fact that we have according to the governor, we have forty four military bases or federally funded research and development centers in California. They all need twenty four seven reliable power.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:58:39] Right. And then why are we importing in jet fuel? You know, Air Force One cannot a military cannot use imported from India or other sources. It has to be sourced in certain ways for Air Force One. So poor old Trump better have a tanker sitting out there filling up Air Force One if he comes out to California.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:59:03] Yeah, it’s it’s there’s so many so many bits of crazy that clearly we we do have a lot to talk about, Stu.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:59:10] I’m sorry to lob that grenade at you.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:59:12] Okay. Yeah. I’m not responsible for it. So I’ve I’ve it’s it’s no no big for me. But it but again, this is there’s just so much irrationality about energy and really the more people can educate themselves and then push for reforms, you know, for example, having Chris Wright as Secretary of Energy is just so absolutely wonderful.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:59:35] Isn’t he fun?

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:59:36] Yeah.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:59:36] I’m f I’ve I’ve got the form filled out. I’m ready to turn it in to get him on the podcast as well, too.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:59:44] Make sure you keep me informed. I wanna watch that podcast.

 

Stuart Turley – ENB Podcast Host [00:59:47] Oh, absolutely. And and again, your substack I love is green nuke.substack dot com. So thank you very much for stopping by.

 

Gene Nelson, Ph.D. Senior Legal Researcher CGNP [00:59:56] All right. Thank you, Stu.