In this episode of Energy Newsbeat – Conversations in Energy, Stu Turley is joined by co-host Kimberly Page and Kirk Edwards, President of Latigo Petroleum, to discuss the evolving energy landscape in the Permian Basin. They cover the shift toward natural gas, AI-driven data center demand, LNG exports, pipeline development, and the impact of U.S. strategic reserves and global geopolitics on oil and gas prices.
The conversation highlights opportunities for natural gas producers, challenges in oil markets, and the critical role of reliable energy infrastructure, including small modular reactors and backup turbines for data centers.
Connect with Kirk Edwards on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirk-edwards-99757412a/
Connect with Kimberly Page here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberly-page/
Check out Reese Energy Consulting here: https://reeseenergyconsulting.com/
Highlights of the Podcast
00:00 – Intro: Stu, Kimberly & Kirk kick off the show
00:25 – Message to Washington: “Get out of the way”
01:22 – Permian layoffs & drilling slowdown
02:45 – AI boom & natural gas demand
04:02 – Permian gas pricing & flaring issues
04:45 – SPR depletion & U.S. energy security
06:18 – OPEC+, tariffs & global oil volatility
08:41 – California’s oil hypocrisy & imports
10:32 – Oil price outlook & Saudi control
11:22 – Rising gas demand & LNG export growth
12:13 – Data centers, turbine shortages & power needs
13:54 – Nuclear energy potential & SMR progress
15:15 – Natural gas optimism & Anadarko revival
16:43 – Rig count drop & workforce impact
17:39 – Closing thoughts: “Drill baby drill”
We covered the article on LinkedIn by Kirk, where he was quoted in the Houston Chronicle.
Message to Washington: Texas oil doesn’t need tariffs or OPEC+ flooding, we need you to get out of the way.
This morning, I was quoted in a Houston Chronicle editorial that captures what many of us in the Permian and beyond are feeling, disappointment and confusion over a U.S. energy policy that seems to bounce from one extreme to the next.
“Energy security has never been more important than it is today. And yet we’re ceding increased production to foreign countries, as opposed to employing our own people and spending the dollars here.”
Right now, we’re seeing layoffs, shrinking investment, and growing uncertainty, not because we can’t produce, but because Washington is sending mixed signals on everything from tariffs to LNG to tax incentives to telling OPEC to flood the world markets with their oil.
We’re not asking for handouts. We’re asking for consistency, common sense, and confidence that the government won’t undercut our ability to operate and invest.
“It’s just depressing right now living here in the Permian and seeing all your friends getting laid off and businesses slowing down.”
Chris Wright and Doug Burgum If you care about American jobs, American production, and American leadership, I hope you’ll read this and think hard about where we’re headed. And please pass it along to the higher ups that can change our current policy.
It is a true honor to interview CEOs and companies that impact energy markets globally, and today’s podcast is an excellent example of how we can achieve Energy Dominance.
Cut regulations and get out of the way, but “Drill baby Drill” cannot be sustained at $50 oil, and oil producers make more money when Democrats are in power—kind of ironic.
Full Transcript
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:00:07] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Energy Newsbeat Podcast. My name’s Stu Turley President and CEO of the Sandstone Group. Today I’ve got a fantastic podcast lined up for you. I’ve got a co-host here today, Kimberly Page with Reese Energy Consulting. How are you today? I’m doing great.
Kimberly Page – Co-Host [00:00:21] Great, thank you. I’m excited about it. Oh ready to have this discussion.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:00:25] Yeah, we’re gonna like really delve into some fun discussions. I’ve got Kirk Edwards. He is the head cabano over there at Latigo Petroleum and he is over in Odessa. How are you today, sir?
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:00:38] Yeah, great, Stu. Thanks for having me today.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:00:40] Boy, and I am glad I didn’t step in that pile of poo and say, You’re in Midland, aren’t you?
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:00:45] Well we’re yeah we still have Friday night lights out here, so it it it comes up every once in a while, middle of Essa.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:00:51] You know, I I have just we’ve been chit chatting here and you kicked off on your LinkedIn post a message to Washington. Texas oil doesn’t need tariffs or OPEC plus flooding. We need you to get out of the way. I absolutely love your attitude. And I I think that when we see President Trump, A, I absolutely love President Trump. President Trump is a cool cat, but when he goes drill baby drill, it’s almost better if you voted for a Democrat than you did a Republican. Tell us about your artist.
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:01:22] Yeah, it’s again the Houston Chronicle called me up their editorial board a couple of days ago and we visited and and they wrote a great piece today. If people get a chance to go read it, I think it’s just spot on. And it talks about how and what we’re seeing out here. I’ve got so many friends and family members in the energy service business that are directly related to the drilling. And it seems like it’s kind of a tale of two cities right now. The drilling side is increasingly getting bad. A lot of layoffs, everybody associated with drilling is bad. And then the production side, they’re still bringing on these big wells. So the production guys are staying busy. Middle of Nodassa seems to be staying busy, but there is definitely an undertone right now of people getting laid off out here that’s got everybody nervous.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:02:00] Oh, absolutely. But and I’m gonna bring Kim in here in a minute and Kimberly and that is is that a change in the molecules? Because we’re taking a look at AI and demand and NAT gas, and that is the Permian getting more gaseous, and that may be a good thing because we need more gas with AI, natural gas demand, LNG exports, President Trump and Secretary Chris Wright trying to do energy dominance as an export service, LNG export. That’s a good thing with new pipelines coming out of the Permian. So is that a good thing for flatlining on net gas rigs, but oil going down?
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:02:45] Yeah, and again, I wrote an article on this yesterday, Stu. So it’s a great topic also for the Odessa American. But the again, there’s no cheaper gas in the world than in the Perme Basin right now. Matter of fact, it’s negative pricing today because of pipeline constraints. There’s flaring going on still everywhere. And if you’re an AI company building a big data center that has to have, you know, a gigawatt of electricity to run it, why not build it here where the gas is almost free? Seriously. And we’ve got all the water that we’re injecting in the ground that is causing earthquakes that we should be, you know, repurposing to run in these data centers to help cool them in these turbines. And I think it’s gonna be a perfect storm ahead for the Permian Basin to have data centers start locating here too. And we’re already seeing it, especially here in Odessa. Abilene has that big humongous project that’s underway getting built. Rick Perry’s trying to put one up in the Texas panhandle. So you’re gonna see a lot of gas getting burned here in the States also that’s gonna compete with the L and G. So I think the nice upside of all this right now is if you’re in the natural gas side of things, which Latigo is, we’re probably 80% natural gas production. So we’re excited. The strip yesterday on the natural gas prices went over four dollars for the next five years. And that’s very positive as opposed to the oil price being at sixty to sixty one dollars where it is today.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:04:02] So as a natural gas, you know, Reese Energy Consulting, and you can go to Reese Energy Consulting dot com, by the way. Just thought I’d share that out there. And and Kimberly, natural gas and and getting your molecules from the Permian out to LNG terminals is pretty critical. What are you guys seeing over there at Reese?
Speaker 2 [00:04:20] I totally agree. And as has been in the news of recent is people wanting to put in more and more pipelines. And so trying to help people navigate through that. We we have a whole lot of AI business right now ourselves. And that’s locating the gas, helping them locate the gas, helping them put together a full plan. So yeah, we’re seeing it seeing it and it’s fun and it’s an exciting time right now, for sure.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:04:45] I’ll tell you, this is kind of you’re bringing up about a four or five different kind of things going on. And when we sit back and take a look, where other than filling the SPR and getting our since President Biden robbed our strategic oil reserve, which just drives me nuts, that absolutely just that’s I I almost consider I consider Secretary Markus guilty of treason by having an open border and not doing his job. But I also consider it almost treasonous to waste such an expensive United States strategic oil reserve for a political gain. I consider that treasonous. This is absolutely ridiculous. Is it just driving the price down?
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:05:28] And it’s exactly what happened because it happened right at the midterms of during Biden’s second last midterm that he had. And it helped. I mean, it got the economy going and got gasoline prices down just exactly like you think it would. But yet now we’re in a and again, Stu, I don’t know if you and Kimberly think this, but I’ve never seen the world as volatile as it is right now with you know China out there, Iran, and then especially Russia and Ukraine and everybody waving their swords at each other right now. And yet we have our strategic patrol reserve dumped in half right now and not putting anything in. And China on the other side is building huge reserves right now. They’re they’re building more capacity. And so they’re taking a lot of imports at sixty bucks a barrel and sticking them in their ever building reserve. And you kind of scratch your head wondering why are they doing that? And yet we’re not. And that there’s something disconnected there too.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:06:18] Kirk, you bring up a fantastic point. And I mean not only a fantastic point, a very scary point, because when you look at the OPEC Plus, just I just wrote an article this morning on energy newsbeat.co. And that is, I’ve been saying for a long time, OPEC Plus does not have a lot of spare capacity. Russia does not have a lot of spare capacity. Iran, Iraq, everybody does not have the spare capacity, and there’s not the oil glut that is going on right now because China’s buying everything. India’s buying everything. And my I think that President Trump, by putting the extra tariffs on India, was a huge mistake trying to get Putin to end the war in Ukraine. He’s not going to end the war in Ukraine till he’s ready. And the I think he has said, Kirk and Kimberly, the only reason he’s going to go to do business is if he would do business with the United States and Trump. He has said that. The only way I’m going to end this war is if I’m going to go do business. I’m like, I don’t care. Let’s just do both. We do business with China. Why don’t we do business with you and end the stinking war? This to me, it makes a little more sense than putting secondary or tertiary tariffs on India, making them mad, driving them away. As long as India and China, Kirk, don’t you think as long as they’re buying oil, oil prices and demand globally should match up?
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:07:47] Well, yeah, but again, OPEC always has that spare capacity and they they can put it on the market whenever they want to. So Reuters was in my office yesterday and we were talking and talking about how you know America’s dominant now with oil and gas production. OPEC and Saudi Arabia have always been the price setters. So they want to put oil on the market, they do. If they don’t want to take it off, they will. But you’re exactly right. We’re one incident away from a big spike in oil prices. And I’m surprised that with the production increases you’ve seen from OPEC Plus announced lately that we’re not in the 50s. But again, we talked about it earlier. You know, Ukraine hitting the Russian refineries. That is a big deal, but it’s causing those barrels that were going in the refinery to make the Russian people their gasoline and diesel to go back on the ocean now and get back in that world market again. So it’s a very interesting quadratic equation, I would say, being an engineer on how this gets solved ahead. And I don’t I don’t know what the answer is.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:08:41] You know, you know, Kirk, this this also speaking of Iran and Iraq, I Iraq just opened up their their new pipeline going in, and they Iraq got California imports 70% of their oil ballpark, and one of their largest suppliers is Iraq. And ironically, they’re having to import gasoline and diesel now. The amount of tankers that is so counter good for the environment. Gavin Newsom is absolutely does he need more hair gel? I don’t know. This is absolutely despicable.
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:09:16] Well, and two, you get what people don’t understand is California gets a tremendous amount of sour crude from Canada. I mean, a lot of that just comes off Canada, goes down and through tankers to California, but Canada burns three to four billion with a cubic feet of gas a day to heat up their tar sands to make that oil flow. And so California is helping the environment by burning more tar sands gas that’s going straight into CO two in the atmosphere. Makes no sense.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:09:46] It it it it it makes you know it just for our podcast listeners, it makes my head hurt. I’m I’ve got a furrowed brow going that it the math I went to Oklahoma State and I’m sitting here the math don’t math up. I’m I’m going, you know, you know, one, two, three. It does not math. So where do you see us going in oil prices? I mean, we are one disaster away, like the Chevron refinery in California, that thing just blew up. That’s 40% of the jet fuel in Southern Cal. That’s 20% of the diesel in the area, man. And when the other two refineries close in California, that’s gonna be ten dollar gasoline next year. This is gonna be absolutely horrific. But where do you see global oil prices?
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:10:33] Yeah, again, you gotta ask OPEC. I mean you gotta ask Saudi Arabia where they want to put ’em because they and I give speeches to and I always tell our best that they know I know exactly what the price is gonna be in three months. Right. People I tell everybody from I mean at the end of the speech, and then they somebody always says, Oh, you said it’s gonna be what’s the oil price gonna be? And I tell them it’s gonna be whatever Saudi wants it to be. And so if they put more oil on the market and Russia and Ukraine are still doing what they’re doing, then we’re gonna have the sixty buck price. But if they start taking it back, but I can’t see that because Trump loves these cheap gasoline prices and it’s helping the economy. It helps everybody except those of us that produce it. So that’s the oxymoron going on with with what’s happening is you know, our administration’s picking a a better economy versus its domestic energy industry, and I think that’s a a misguided step right now.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:11:22] Do you think the change in molecule demand is going to impact, let’s say five years from now, we get more pipeline out of the Permian that net gas become because it does appear that net gas demand is gonna be skyrocketing.
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:11:38] Yeah, and still what’s crazy. Kimberly probably can talk better to this, but we produce, say, in the Permian right now, it’s negative. The Panhandle Texas, we’re getting probably 350, four bucks an MCF. That gets liquefied and put on a tanker and goes to Europe, it’s $18 to $30 an MCF. So people can live with $18 to $30, but yeah, we’re only getting two. I mean, there’s such a disconnect right now. So again, if we got six bucks, eight bucks an MCF, you would see this country going nuts on natural gas. But again, the Permian guys have it. They can get all the natural gas you want. It’s just we can’t get it out of here. That’s the problem.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:12:13] Yeah, Stargate is just down the road from my house here in Abilene. And I’m and I’m that thing is huge. And they are putting in small jet engines. They’re they’re repurposing jet engines to natural gas just to get them started because the NAT gas turbines are in such short supply. They’re going to use these as backup generators, backup turbines when the other one comes in and it’s then installed. That thing would support 130,000 homes, but it’s going to be behind the meter. So behind the meter data centers in Midland Odessa area in that area would be phenomenally price smart.
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:12:57] Right, especially because they’re gonna have to bring their own power. So it used to be this DIMBY thing, people are always trying to get big data into their communities. And then they found out how much power they take. Now they’re everybody’s like, we don’t want you. And but the big data center guys now aren’t it’s exactly what you said. They’re having to bring their own power. And the turbine orders I heard are like five to six years out. I mean, that that is gonna be and I I have not heard the jet engine. So that’s gonna be interesting how they’re gonna use a preliminary step before the big turbines are built and the big plants are built. But what’s not gonna happen, and I’ve been very much involved in a big nuclear company the last couple of years, nuclear’s seven years away if it’s there. And it’s a shame because that’s the answer. You can get all the nuclear power you want, but again, this country’s not ready to we don’t have anybody at the a nuclear regulatory commission that’s approved a plant in 40 years. And so what kind of mindset do we have trying to get something built when nobody’s there that’s even seen one?
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:13:55] No, Kirk, you are dead on right on nuclear. And I’ve interviewed several nuclear companies and Jay J U over there at nano nuclear. I’ve interviewed him and their CEO, and they are absolutely wonderful people. He’s got two plants that he’s got two locations, one in Canada, one in the US. But I love the way they’re doing it. They’re gonna do it, be building micro reactors that’ll fit on a truck. But on the other hand, it’s going to take a little bit of time in order to they’re building the factory at the same time. Two factories, two locations, one in Canada, one in the US, and they’re building the factory and getting them approved at the same time. But they’re three to five years out. I mean
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:14:42] Still you have to have the fuel form too. So the fuel’s not even available yet.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:14:47] And they’re they’re they’re doing the fuel at the same time. And so they’re they’re they’re bringing in the fuel at the same time. They’ve got the fuel, the factory, and the locations at the same time.
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:15:01] But it like you said, again, that’s not proven, first of all. And these turbines are proven. They can generate the electricity and these data centers have to have very reliable twenty-four-seven power and windmills and solar panels, as you know, are not gonna do that.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:15:15] No, absolutely not. And and Kimberly, when we sit back and take a look at auditing for natural gas in what Reese can energy is consulting, you’ve got some gigantic customers in the natural gas space. How are they looking at net gas? They’re feeling pretty groovy about the future,
Kimberly Page – Co-Host [00:15:33] They definitely are, yes. And that’s good for us obviously because of our auditing business. But yeah, they’re they’re all excited.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:15:40] Well, I I’ll tell you what, what do you see coming around the corner as far for let a go?
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:15:46] Well, again, we’re just we’re happy we’re in natural gas finally. As Kimberly can tell you, we have fought, especially in the panhandle. Again, we get good takeaway in the panhandle. So we never get the negative pricing like they do in the Waha, things like that. But you’re you’re still been two buck gas, you know, net at the wellhead, things like that. Right. And so finally at four bucks, you can see some activity going on. And there’s some activity in the mergers and acquisitions up there. So I think the Anadarco basin is finally going to be in the limelight as opposed to being in the doldrums the last probably five to ten years. So I think that anybody involved in the natural gas thinks is gonna be extremely happy, especially with the way the strips are looking right now for for pricing ahead. Very positive.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:16:29] Yeah, my family’s got some mineral rights in the Anadarco basin and I’m always my always been praying for a rig on that land. Exactly. So when we sit back, well thank you. And people will find you on your LinkedIn account, Kirk.
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:16:43] Oh, you’ve had a very active there and always could take more friends and followers there too. But it it’s very exciting right now. Again, I’m a huge Trump supporter. Don’t get I was at Merilago just a couple of months ago having there with him and you know, couldn’t be more proud of his policies on immigration and things like that. But do not understand where we’re going on energy and energy security right now. And again, we see it here in the Permian. These we’ve lost probably 70 rigs in the last six months of drilling for oil in this country. And there’s a hundred people per rig that are out there working and and you’re seeing the layoffs happen right now. It’s not affecting Middle Odessa that bad because we have so many people, the transient in here, our airport is full of F one fifty pickups. I mean, it is a parking lot, but but again, you’re not seeing a lot of the layoffs here locally just because we have so many transient people happening and but again, we’d rather be busy than cautious and uncertain about times ahead.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:17:39] Oh, absolutely. And Kimberly, and any last thoughts and Reese Energiconsulting dot com?
Kimberly Page – Co-Host [00:17:45] No not that I can think of other than when I was coming into the call today, drill baby drill was on my mind and we got to talk about that. So I’m a happy camper over here.
Stuart Turley – Energy News Beat Host [00:17:55] All right. Well, with that, thank you all very much for stopping by the podcast. My name’s Stu Turley, president of the Sandstone Group. And Kirk, I can’t wait to give you a hug next time I’m out there in Odessa. So.
Kirk Edward – President at Latigo Petroleum [00:18:05] You bet Stu. Thank you so much for having us today.
Kimberly Page – Co-Host [00:18:07] Thank you.
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