ENB #103 – Valerie Pinamonti – Attorney, Law Contracts, Safety, and experience on over 50 wind farm fields. Get the inside baseball on wind and safety.
This is a great conversation with Valerie about safety and renewable energy. As an attorney with years of experience in wind farm projects, she has seen every side of the good and bad of wind farms. With the real questions that are coming out about the viability of ESG investments in renewable, There are some other serious considerations as well.
Safety in energy is equally critical in the oil and gas and renewable sectors. We need low-cost, reliable energy for all citizens of the world without printing money to get there.
Valerie gave us some examples and one horrific example of bad safety practices. In one of her wind farm projects, there were 3 deaths in as many months. Cutting safety corners to save money is horrible. But the profitability of wind farms has come into a real concern.
I have been researching the failure rates of wind farms to incorporate in future articles, and the early numbers show that they may not be profitable after only 8 years. This is due to the high maintenance costs, including labor, oil, and other fossil fuels, to keep them running.
My interview with Donn Dears about the Clean Energy Crisis has a lot of data and coincides with what Valerie has experienced.
Valery, thank you for stopping by the Energy News Beat Podcast and sharing your great experiences and ideas. – Stu
Victor, Thank you for setting this up. It meant a lot – Stu.
Other recent stories from ENB on the ESG concerns for Wind Farms.
Dead whales and tough economics bedevil Biden’s massive wind energy push – Will oil save the whales the 2nd time?
January 28, 2023 Mariel Alumit Climate Crisis, ENB Pub Note, Energy Transition, Renewables, Top News, US Energy News, Wind
People stand next to a dead humpback whale that washed up on the beach in Brigantine, New Jersey, U.S., January 13, 2023. REUTERS/Rachel Wisniewski (Rachel Wisniewski / reuters)
Connect with Valerie Pinamonti on her LinkedIn
Follow Stuart On LinkedIn and Twitter
Video Transcription edited for grammar. We disavow any errors unless they make us look better or smarter.
Stuart Turley: [00:00:03] Hey, good morning, everybody. Today is just a fantastic day. My name’s Stu Turley, president, CEO of the Sandstone Group and we’re going to have a very, very heart to heart discussion with Valerie Piedmont. [00:00:16][13.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:00:17] And she is actually a an attorney out of Oklahoma City with John B Davis Law and she’s the contract specialist over there. Thank you, Valerie, for stopping by the podcast. [00:00:30][12.4]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:00:31] Thank you for inviting me. You appreciate it. [00:00:33][1.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:00:33] I’ll tell you, Valerie, I’m going to give a little bit of inside baseball for our listeners out there. And I’ve known your brother Moses. [00:00:43][9.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:00:44] Your brother and I are all buddies. So, you know, we’ve all had a lot of fun over the years and I’ve been really enjoyed his interaction on subs, on LinkedIn and everything. So I’m so sorry that you have a brother like Victor. [00:01:00][15.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:01:02] I’ve got another brother too. [00:01:03][0.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:03] Oh, cool. And your other brother Darrell. [00:01:06][2.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:01:07] Yeah. Yeah. [00:01:08][0.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:09] And. And so what was it like growing up with Victor? [00:01:12][2.5]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:01:13] He was a great kid. He really was. You know, I took care of him a lot when he was real little and, you know, took him to back to school night at school and all that kind of stuff and. [00:01:23][9.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:23] Nice. [00:01:23][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:01:25] He he and I have always been really close and I’ve treasured that relationship. Yeah, he really is a great guy. He’s a great brother. I wouldn’t trade him. [00:01:36][10.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:37] Well, one of the things that I enjoy is his comments are very thoughtful and well done on LinkedIn. And Linked In is is really a nice place to have thoughtful conversations. [00:01:47][10.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:01:48] But Valerie, he let me in on some things. You’ve got some experience in the wind firearms and in the contracting. Can we start on some of that? Because you know, my my belief is that we need to get the lowest cost kilowatt per hour to everyone on the planet and we need to elevate people out of poverty. [00:02:11][22.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:02:12] And that means getting the lowest kilowatt per hour with the least amount of damage or impact on the environment without subsidies. [00:02:21][8.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:02:21] And so that formula involves wind, solar, nuclear, natural gas coal involves everything. But let’s get the right formula. [00:02:32][10.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:02:34] And there’s a lot of controversy out there because just as I’ve been doing my research and it seems like wind farms are needed, but on the wind farms, they were being advertised as I think you sure probably heard this 20 years and 30 years on the that they’re going to last in my numbers that I’m researching are showing up as eight years that they’re lasting. [00:02:57][23.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:02:58] So there’s a huge disparity between how good they are versus the monitoring returns on them and we want to hear your contractor and your insights to what it is to actually work in the wind farms. [00:03:12][14.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:03:14] I’ve worked on over 50 wind farms. [00:03:15][1.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:03:16] Wow. [00:03:16][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:03:17] Yeah. And each one is a little bit different. But basically wind farms have a lot of your turbines have a lot of moving parts. [00:03:24][6.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:03:25] Right. [00:03:25][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:03:25] Propellers need to be replaced and the motors and everything and so 20 to 30 years, I would have thought was way overly optimistic if somebody had told me that in the beginning, I would have thought they were trying to sell me beachfront property in Omaha, Nebraska. [00:03:39][14.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:03:40] Right. [00:03:40][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:03:42] So I think you’re right in the 8 to 10 year range and it requires maintenance I mean, you have to have maintenance people close by on the sides to maintain the size appropriately or you’re going to have downtime, which is costly. And I just. Your concern. [00:03:54][12.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:03:55] Right. And and so and I was visiting with a lot of grid folks lately and people are miscalculating. You can’t just go. [00:04:05][10.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:04:07] Do you remember back to the Future with Christopher Lloyd? I just love that man and when he would go, it’s 14.3 gigawatts. I mean, every time I’m talking gigawatts, gigawatts, I always it’s kind of crazy I always think of him. I’m jealous of his hair, though, You know, I kind of would love, you know, to have that hair. But. [00:04:24][17.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:04:25] When you think about the grid, you can’t just go here’s a two megawatt when tower and say it’s going to equal a two megawatt natural gas price generator because you have to factor in the difference. [00:04:42][16.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:04:43] And the difference is that as soon as you plop in wind turbines on a grid, instead of having the 20%, you have to add another 180. [00:04:53][9.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:04:54] So for every one wind tower, you have to add actually another 180 wind towers in order to equal the same amount that you want to have in there for the natural same natural gas plant so those economies of scale are not there,. [00:05:12][17.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:05:13] But it’s the maintenance pieces that we’re not hearing about. And how were you involved with those maintenance numbers or those kind of things? I mean, because you described a whole fleet out there of people that are required. [00:05:28][15.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:05:30] Yes, there are people required for the maintenance to have to be available on a basically on call they generally station them remotely so they are close to usually at least two or three wind farms for most efficiency they try not to make it so that when one farm is over a 140 mile radius,. [00:05:46][16.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:05:48] Wow! [00:05:48][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:05:48] Away from the technician, my neighbor, when my neighbors in Texas, when I was down there building the wind farm, he was a wind technician for another company’s product. [00:05:57][8.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:05:58] And so we got into a lot of discussions about maintenance, what he was required to do, and he might have times where he was very busy, especially after storms, where he would have to get out there and get things going again,. [00:06:08][9.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:06:09] Right. [00:06:09][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:06:09] The maintenance, like anything with moving parts, maintenance is really the key to keeping it working reliably. [00:06:14][4.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:06:15] Right. [00:06:15][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:06:15] And I’m afraid that companies will lose sight of that and that will make even more downtime for wind and also decrease the lifespan on the wind farm as well. [00:06:25][9.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:06:26] Right. [00:06:26][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:06:27] That’s a key, key factor. The maintenance. [00:06:29][1.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:06:30] You know, I was I was tickled this weekend and I was reading that Scotland got busted. [00:06:35][5.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:06:36] They had cut down 14,000 trees to make room for their wind farms and then I don’t know if you heard these stories or not, but then they got the local power company had 50 of their towers were being run by generators to turn the turbines. [00:06:58][21.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:07:01] So diesel generators were actually turning the blades. And boy, that was a black eye for him on that. [00:07:08][6.5]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:07:08] That’s that’s green smoke energy instead of green energy. [00:07:11][2.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:07:12] Yes. And I mean, there’s also a ton of oil in leakage through the turbines. Don’t they take like 80 gallons of oil in in there and things to just. [00:07:24][12.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:07:25] Yeah. Know, oil guzzlers. Yeah. They do the set up, the set up for the setup for the turbine other than the actual erection of the tower and the propellers themselves is very intensive. [00:07:38][13.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:07:39] Right. [00:07:39][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:07:40] Sure. That you get everything filled and tested and checked and then coordinated with the other turbines online is a very intensive process. [00:07:47][7.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:07:48] Right. Well, when you are working with those 50 wind farms, you saw them, I’m sure, from cradle to grave and all points in between. [00:07:56][7.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:07:57] It’s the cement trucks, it’s the everything else. These are using a lot of diesel fuel. They’re using a lot of just about everything concrete, steel. [00:08:08][10.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:08:10] And the legal side of that has got to be just not too well. [00:08:14][4.7]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:08:16] You find a lot of wind farms in Texas. Texas isn’t like a place like Arkansas, for example, where environmental regulations are very, very tough. [00:08:23][7.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:08:24] Right. [00:08:24][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:08:25] The natural state. And they’re really trying to push that with environmental regulations. In fact, I kind of think they’re going to give California a run for their money on environmental and pretty soon. [00:08:32][7.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:08:33] No way. [00:08:33][0.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:08:34] Yeah, they really have swung hard to the environmental protection, which, you know, I’m not saying is wrong, but it is a right when you go. [00:08:41][7.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:08:42] But Texas is a lot more, let’s say, forgiving for pollution and industry, particularly for the oil and gas industry and oil and gas products. [00:08:50][8.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:08:51] But you know, Arkansas, I love Arkansas and. You’re in Oklahoma City now. Currently, I’m over on the eastern side. Oklahoma over by like ten. [00:09:01][9.7]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:09:02] Okay. Beautiful area and beautiful. [00:09:03][1.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:09:05] And we have an overpopulation of bears and we’re at the foothills of the Ozarks and so it’s beautiful country and they got nuclear want. [00:09:14][9.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:09:14] So Arkansas has really a nice nuclear reactor there. So, I mean, I, I can understand that it is beautiful and I don’t mind that because it’s a good reason. But when doesn’t work in Arkansas, I mean the hills, you know are not I mean, they’re not really good about that. But I did not know that about the regulations. That’s pretty wild. [00:09:38][23.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:09:39] Yeah, they’ve been tough in the regulations. I want to say it’s heading on to about nine years now. I’ve really seen it swing towards the California model of environmental protection. [00:09:50][11.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:09:51] Do you know anything about Governor Huckabee now? Do you think she’ll have an impact on that in the positive or the ability to drive that? [00:09:59][8.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:10:01] I have seen very little about Governor Huckabee’s environmental thoughts and policies that she. Okay. I think she’s pro-business. [00:10:08][6.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:10:09] Nice. [00:10:09][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:10:11] And from what I have seen and what I’ve read, it seems that she’s very pro-business. I think that would be good if they can prove to her that, for example, wind is a viable industry or bring a lot of quality jobs to Arkansas even. Really? [00:10:24][13.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:10:25] You’re really working to elevate their image is a tourist attraction, a place, train, education. [00:10:35][10.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:10:37] And boy, they say it is a beautiful place. I mean, I just absolutely they don’t deserve all of the jokes that they have against them from Arkansas . So all of them, I mean, they’re some applicable, you know. [00:10:49][11.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:10:50] You know, I like both of my fans over in Arkansas, So we got to keep them happy, you know? [00:10:55][5.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:10:57] Razorbacks, huh? [00:10:58][0.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:10:59] I love Razorbacks. And you know, what’s fun is when you go down in in the Fayetteville Rogers area and everything else, the hats,. [00:11:09][9.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:11:10] I mean, you can a you can swing around and you see those hats going to the game. I’m sorry, I would wear a hog hat if I was in a hey, Razorback fan. Fact, my neighbor about two miles down the road has razorback stuff all through his yard. So they’re rabid. I mean, they are absolutely rabid fans. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. [00:11:36][26.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:11:37] But that’s also flipped back over into the regulatory side and in Texas and in the U.S., it seems like the regulatory side is actually going to be getting tougher throughout the U.S. and slowing down oil and gas and renewables it doesn’t seem like there’s any discrimination regardless of energy it just seems like there’s. Is that what you’re saying as well, too, Valerie? [00:12:01][23.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:12:02] I see a trend towards it. Renewables are not quite the darling they were. Oh. 12 years ago. [00:12:10][7.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:12:11] Right. [00:12:11][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:12:11] Renewables, especially. Wind was the big darling of the the new the new way the power is going to go is the answer to all our problems that 2030 year lifespan on a project, you know, all these great promises and they just really didn’t materialize. [00:12:26][14.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:12:27] And then they found out that it was a lot more involved. And then I think they also hope that the battery technology for storage would be a lot more developed by now. [00:12:34][6.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:12:34] Right. [00:12:34][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:12:34] I see. I follow that whole group closely. I feel like I found all the energy field in general closely. But I, I. [00:12:41][6.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:12:43] I do think they thought the battery technology might be a little further along, because I did work on a wind farm with battery storage capability it was a small one in Washington State and it was around it was about 14 years ago. [00:12:56][13.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:12:57] Oh, Wow [00:12:57][0.2]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:12:58] And I think. [00:12:58][0.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:12:58] We need it since 14 years. [00:13:00][1.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:13:00] But that oh, that was 14 years ago. They’re still really need to come a long way. And that’s why I see a lot more interest now in the the Mini. Nuclear processing. [00:13:13][12.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:13:14] We have the micro reactors. [00:13:16][2.1]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:13:17] Micro reactors? Yeah. I see a lot more interest in the micro reactors now because people are beginning to realize that not every reactor must melt down that’s not a requirement in the specifications when you start up a reactor,. [00:13:29][11.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:13:30] Right,. [00:13:30][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:13:30] You’re getting to be less afraid of it. Mother Jones magazine is touting nuclear power four as green energy for I don’t know how many years. [00:13:39][8.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:13:40] Right. [00:13:40][0.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:13:41] You know, I’ve been tracking that since 26 on my podcast and they snuck in language back then saying that natural gas and nuclear were okay you know, they kind of did its okay and then in COP 27, they snuck it in again. [00:13:59][17.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:14:00] And then the Biden administration in the original infrastructure bill snuck in language in their paragraphs. Nobody even said Boog they never even said anything. It said natural gas and nuclear can be considered renewable. Available for renewable funding was the language, and it’s because they know they need it. [00:14:22][22.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:14:23] All of a sudden, the EU and in Europe they said it’s now available for funding and that was before that. [00:14:29][6.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:14:30] And then in the Inflation Reduction Act that snuck in there as well so you’re now seeing that gradual change that it’s available for funding over the quietly. [00:14:41][10.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:14:43] Because they didn’t want to disturb their their voter base and it’s interesting that you would say that. [00:14:49][6.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:14:50] Yes, natural gas, you know, for example, I live in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area, and our biggest generator here is natural gas because of the location here. [00:15:00][10.2]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:15:01] Coal generation was a popular one up here. So public service company of Oklahoma built their on your generation so the generation here is natural gas as opposed to coal firewood you got further north northwest into Oklahoma. [00:15:15][14.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:15:16] And. I have not heard people in general complain about the the plant they complain about the Sun refinery burning off, but they don’t complain about the Firestone gas. [00:15:29][12.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:15:30] Right. [00:15:30][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:15:31] But yeah, gas. Gas has the thing is, I think people most of people that I deal with who’ve worked in the wind industry and solar and battery technology and hydrogen, they all kind of agree that we’re really going to have to look at for a time to come into the battery technologies further along. I mean, they suffer the advancements in energy production. [00:15:50][18.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:15:51] Right. [00:15:51][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:15:51] You have to have a balanced portfolio and gas and wind and solar but we can’t we can’t abandon there may even be a place for coal a lot of them believe for another 20, 30 years and a smaller part of the portfolio because well, plants need maintenance, too. Coal plants. And their turnarounds are very fun. [00:16:14][23.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:16:16] Very fun. [00:16:16][0.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:16:17] Oh, very fun. Yes. Everybody but everybody has to do a quick turnaround once in a lifetime where they don’t have to talk to anybody. [00:16:22][5.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:16:23] Oh. Oh, that’s that. Now, that is funny and so when you when you sit back and take a look, all energy jobs, we have to hand it to all linemen. [00:16:33][9.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:16:34] I mean, the oil and gas hands, they all are on the front lines, keeping the U.S. energy on on track, you know, and delivering that great electric on the power grid. [00:16:47][12.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:16:48] But you had mentioned in there some of the wind farms were pretty tough on people and there was an accident rating going on on some of those. Could you allude to some more on that? [00:16:59][10.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:17:00] I was on a site where in two months there were three deaths. [00:17:03][2.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:17:05] Say that again? You had what? [00:17:06][1.4]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:17:07] I was on a site where there were three deaths in two months. Three people died on site in two months. [00:17:11][4.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:17:12] Wow. What was going on? [00:17:13][1.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:17:15] Lack of safety procedures. Now, first of all, let me tell you, my dad was in structural steel. He told me as a kid that everybody leaves the jobsite in the condition they came to work in. [00:17:25][10.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:17:26] Right. [00:17:26][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:17:26] And that’s the culture I was raised in, in all the years I worked in construction and manufacturing on jobsite, I never once was on a job site where there was one death. [00:17:36][9.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:17:37] Right. [00:17:37][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:17:37] Here, a few lost time, accidents. So you experience three deaths in two months, sending people up in the Twin Towers to work alone, which is a big no no you don’t do that because in one case, the gentleman slumped over in his harness and went. Kill them. He was upside down. [00:17:52][15.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:17:53] Oh, that breaks my heart. [00:17:55][2.1]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:17:56] That’s so preventable. And then they turned right around two weeks later and sent another guy up and went out alone right after that accident. And that’s when I left that company. [00:18:05][8.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:18:06] When was it? Because they were budget strapped and just looking at the bottom line and not obeying safety rules? That’s the first thing that comes to mind. [00:18:17][10.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:18:18] Yes. Whenever I go to work for any company, I always ask them about their safety policy because my life is safety is everybody’s responsibility. [00:18:25][6.7]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:18:26] If you try to operate a crane without a crane that you stop and it doesn’t matter if you’re the catering company that came through or if you’re one of your coworkers,. [00:18:34][8.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:18:35] You stop, you turn to the screen pans established. You don’t go operating. Your crane on here is not stable basis. Operate on cranes, too. [00:18:41][6.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:18:42] Wow. You know, Valerie, that is. I’m going to cut you off right there for this comment. Outstanding when you’re interviewing for a job and then you hold up and go time out, you know,. [00:18:55][13.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:18:56] What’s your safety record? I would hire you on the spot if you asked me that if I was the CEO of a company in you’re you have the where with all to say, what’s my safety record? I hat’s off to you and anybody in the construction space. I take note of what you just said. That means a lot. [00:19:14][18.5]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:19:16] Nobody’s ever. Nobody’s ever died on one of my sites and I intend to die with that record because I don’t care if you’re 75 and I’m not seven foot five on five four. [00:19:27][10.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:19:27] I will stop you and I will make you down and stop whatever you’re doing if you’re if you’re speeding with a forklift truck or whatever, because safety is my responsibility, just like it is everyone else’s. [00:19:37][9.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:19:38] Wow. How cool is that? One of the toughest interview questions I had this was a million years ago. [00:19:47][8.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:19:48] And the head Cubano asked me and said, What if we had on your quota to sell an inferior product? And I said, I wouldn’t make quota because I’d want to do what was right for the customer. And he said that was the right answer. [00:20:06][18.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:20:07] And when I got hired, I realized that I’m like, you hired me even though I would give up my quota and my commissions to do what was right for the customer and he goes, Yeah, you’re out of, I think, 50 people. I was the only one that answered Yes,. [00:20:22][15.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:20:23] I answered it that way. And you got to do what’s right. I mean, it’s just crazy. [00:20:30][7.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:20:31] Well, you know, the battle cry now for companies is. Excuse me you know who’s most important to them? [00:20:37][5.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:20:37] And I always say customers, and most companies say shareholders. But let’s face it, if you don’t have customers,. [00:20:43][5.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:20:44] Right,. [00:20:44][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:20:44] Shareholders aren’t going to make a lot of money. [00:20:45][1.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:20:47] Right. And they didn’t win much money when they got lawsuits from those families of the safety. Do you follow Ed Davidson on LinkedIn, by any chance? [00:20:56][9.5]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:20:57] No, I don’t even know that name. [00:20:58][1.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:20:59] He is absolutely a great safety influence, safety influencer on LinkedIn and his videos are phenomenal while they may be funny, every one of his stories on LinkedIn have an excellent safety story. [00:21:20][20.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:21:21] Here’s a crane that falls over and then he explains the safety rules around it. So as being Valerie is you being in the safety field and everything else, that would be a great one for you to follow as well and for any of our construction folks or any of the other CEOs,. [00:21:38][17.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:21:40] I was lucky enough to get tower certified for rescue and I thoroughly enjoyed that and I was not the guy actually out there turned in their inches but I enjoyed being able to get on the tower and if I had to, you know, to save somebody. [00:21:57][17.2]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:21:59] Yeah. The tower is very important to have on job sites. No matter what the job site, you never know what you’re going to encounter that happens around your job site. [00:22:08][9.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:22:09] I think people tend to look at their job sites as just a finite area like Lego blocks on a board in just this finite little area they’re dealing with but your job site can encompass things around. [00:22:19][10.1]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:22:19] I mean, when you work on wind farms, especially in small areas and out in the country, you get involved with, you know, someone who thinks that you did something with their fence and their bull got out now they need to get a new go because they’re bored, got scared and died because it was all, you know,. [00:22:36][16.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:22:36] You get involved with a lot of periphery that people sometimes don’t think about. [00:22:39][2.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:22:40] Oh yeah. [00:22:40][0.2]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:22:41] You really have to look at your job site as is just a part. You’re immediate part of a larger environment that you need to be aware of what’s going on in Now. [00:22:52][11.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:22:53] Since you’re a Tolson and you’ve been in Oklahoma, did you get your law degree from OSU? [00:23:00][7.5]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:23:01] You know, I clerked for two attorneys and then I passed the bar. [00:23:04][3.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:06] No kidding. That’s cool. All. [00:23:10][4.2]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:23:12] Abraham Lincoln did it, and I did it to. [00:23:13][1.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:15] Hi, Valerie. You’re the first I’ve heard doing that. Congratulations. [00:23:18][3.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:23:19] Thank you. [00:23:20][0.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:21] That’s huge. [00:23:21][0.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:23:22] I looked at law school, and just like, you know, any school is value, and I didn’t see any law school involved. [00:23:27][4.8]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:23:27] Now, if I were still in California, where you got Loyola and Pepperdine, a lot of really good law schools around. I probably would have went to law school. [00:23:33][6.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:35] Wow. [00:23:35][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:23:35] See, I didn’t see a good option for law school and I didn’t see where I was going to get anywhere near my money’s worth and it really wasn’t going to fit in with my timeframe. So I just decided there was a way to get to my goal. I would find it and I found it. [00:23:48][12.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:49] Valerie, That’s huge. I’m sorry. That’s. Congratulations. That’s really cool. I’ve not met anybody like that now. [00:23:58][9.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:23:59] I understand now that there is a family trait that I can see in the Penniman Day family you know, Victor’s pretty smart cat, too, so, you know, I can see the genes kind of roll around in the family that way, then. So wait a minute. Did we compliment him? [00:24:19][19.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:24:20] Ah, you did? Yeah. I won’t tell him, though. [00:24:22][1.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:24:22] Oh, no, we don’t want to tell Victor that. So, you know, when we. Was that a cat? [00:24:27][5.1]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:24:28] That was a cat tail. [00:24:29][0.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:24:30] Oh, how cool. For our podcast listeners. Valerie had a cat tell go by her camera, and I think that was one of the coolest things. How? [00:24:37][7.4]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:24:39] I’m so sorry, MAXINE. As she’ll be 18 this year and she just feels like everything belongs to her at this point in her life. [00:24:45][6.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:24:46] Oh, how fun. Yesterday I was in a business meeting and there a another recording as well and there was a cat that popped up over the interviewee’s thing and started looking around and everything else. So,. [00:25:00][13.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:25:01] You know, what’s really cool is that this is the only thing that Covid has really brought to bear is the ability to have great conversations without, you know, having the back, having to worry about your backgrounds and enjoying cats and enjoying kids come into the conversation. And I mean, that to me is the best thing about that’s the only thing I like about Covid. [00:25:26][25.5]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:25:28] You’re good company. [00:25:28][0.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:25:32] I mean, it is so much nicer to have meetings and discussions, but what’s coming around the corner for Valerie? Valerie, what are you seeing in the industry right now? [00:25:42][9.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:25:43] The wind farm. I don’t see how the wind farm can sustain these safety records. Most of them have on site. I’ve never worked on a wind farm that had, I consider even a more acceptable amount of lost time accidents. You get a lot of the same thing you see in any industry. [00:25:58][15.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:25:59] You see jobs start before all the people is on site. You see jobs started before the safety training. When I did scheduling, I scheduled safety training into the schedule. I schedule the ordering and the delivery, the PPE. It all had to come before the training and there all the training had to come before you started that action. [00:26:17][17.8]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:26:18] But I’ve seen things for safety over the years that just really appalled me and like I said, I stop them and people get angry at me sometimes, but I really don’t care. I mean, somebody’s life is at stake in some of these situations,. [00:26:30][12.7]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:26:32] And wind farms seem to have a particularly bad one because they do get lazy and they tend to work in sequential crews, like they’ll send a wind farm, they’ll send a wind crew with the idea of having them work like three wind farms in succession and then such, if there’s anything that goes wrong with the first wind farm,. [00:26:49][17.5]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:26:50] Just like the margin of safety with the with the two jets in Austin Airport the other day, 115 between them in Vegas and the margin that they have between flights is two is too narrow. They need it. They need to make a broader margin. [00:27:03][13.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:27:04] Right. [00:27:04][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:27:04] Got really no downtime. And let’s face it, you just reason you do route management on a project is because there are things that can go wrong need to discuss the risk evaluators and they contingency plans for than saying everything’s great and sunny and nothing’s going to go wrong. [00:27:19][14.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:27:21] And the wind farms start to get behind. And the further they get behind on the first wind farm, the more they start to rushes so they can send that sequence of people from the first wind farm to the second wind farm and then the process continues with the 30 maybe I’ve seen up to five wind farms in a sequence. [00:27:35][14.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:27:37] Wow. And that you when you are rushed, you throw safety aside. And while we all joke in the industry about the safety man, or when you’re on the pad and everybody, the safety man shows up, you got to have the tailgate safety meeting before the day and that kind of thing it’s like there’s a real reason you have safety people. [00:28:01][23.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:28:02] I mean it as much as we make fun of them, you know, I’d rather have a good safety person or someone monitoring the programs than have that other incident or that company that you are at. That’s horrible. [00:28:18][16.2]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:28:19] It really is the most tragic accident that I have ever, ever heard about. It did not happen on my site, but it happened in a company next door to where I was at. [00:28:28][8.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:28:28] The gentleman rode his son up on an on a beam of steel on a I’m sleeping on a crane and nobody was which is a big no no to begin with. [00:28:40][12.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:28:40] Oh, yeah. [00:28:41][0.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:28:41] Couple that nobody was tied. He wasn’t tied off or anything. He was just free and easy up there on that beam. On a windy day. [00:28:49][7.3]
[00:28:51] That. Thats.. [00:28:51][0.4]
[00:28:51] He was a crane operator. Son to. [00:28:54][3.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:28:57] No way. [00:28:57][0.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:28:58] Operator. Son. Son fell off. Loved wife and two small children behind. Plus, he’s the one that was driving that car when his son died. For a moment a frolic that should have never, ever been entertained for even 2 seconds. [00:29:13][15.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:29:14] You know, is it the golden rule that if you’re off the ice, is it ten feet? I mean, you got to have safety, you know, what’s the number that you got to have, you know, safety stuff on? It’s not very high. [00:29:30][15.1]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:29:30] No, it’s you know, we use ten feet in the construction industry that I worked in. And that’s that’s pretty good rule of thumb it’s not a lot, but it’s in some and it sets a parameter I think you need to have a parameter for people. Otherwise, it becomes an elusive goal to go after. Is it? You’re just I leave it at your discretion or when convenient or things like that, because it’s like,. [00:29:54][24.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:29:55] So when is it convenient? You know, So what is my discretion? My discretion probably different than your discretion, you know, and then put another person in there and use their opinion so it doesn’t work out too well. [00:30:05][9.8]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:30:05] But I’ve seen that was a really sad, sad accident and I often think of that young, young woman and her children who grow up without a father because of that accident and I wonder about the relationship between her and her father in law to. [00:30:19][13.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:30:21] I don’t. I’m at a loss for words on that. I mean, I don’t even know how I would handle it if I had something like that happen. [00:30:29][7.8]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:30:30] Just just some. But most of the accidents that I the ones that I saw on the one side, there were three fatalities in two months. They were, you know, somebody up in a tower all by themselves. That should have never happened and that accident wouldn’t have happened. [00:30:42][12.1]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:30:43] Somebody people working in supervisory conditions, that job site should have been shut down because of the weather. [00:30:48][4.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:30:49] Right. [00:30:49][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:30:49] I mean, it was like it was like working in one of those old Westerns where they’re fighting their way through the mud storms, trying to get to the next town. It was it was that the weather was that bad for having that work when there’s lightning. [00:31:01][11.6]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:02] Right. [00:31:02][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:31:03] In the area. [00:31:03][0.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:04] When Tower. Holy smoke. Yeah. [00:31:06][1.7]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:31:07] Just really, really simple. Simple things that you would look you and I would look at and say, that’s just not a good idea at all. Even to don’t even think that way. [00:31:16][9.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:16] Well, you maybe I’m an idiot. And I mean, I was throwing a safety line on a two storey my two storey house in Edmond, Oklahoma, and. okay.. [00:31:27][10.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:28] I fell off a two storey roof throwing a safety line so I wouldn’t fall off the roof now what a moron does that. Right? So I’m on the peak of it in a thought, going through my mind as I’m sliding down that roof. Gutter, gutter, gutter. Hit the gutter. Hit it. And so I grabbed the gutter, bent the gutter in it, threw me back, and I landed flat on my back on a paving stone breaking my back. [00:31:55][27.2]
Stuart Turley: [00:31:56] I’m an idiot and my wife came out there and she goes, You’re an idiot. Now, fortunately, she didn’t say, Get your own ride to the hospital like she has in the past. But, you know. [00:32:06][9.7]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:32:09] You did. You broke it. You take it and get it fixed. [00:32:11][2.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:32:12] Oh, yeah. I mean, I’ve had that happen before, and. But I’m accident prone and Valerie, you would never want me on your job site. [00:32:20][8.4]
Stuart Turley: [00:32:23] I am a safety man’s nightmare. I mean, there is just no way people would want me on their pads. [00:32:29][6.4]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:32:30] You make. You wear two pairs of no cut gloves whenever you have anything sharp in your hand. [00:32:33][3.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:32:34] Oh, I got to look like the Michelin Man. You remember the Michelin Man? You know, I look like him with safety gear. In fact, if I don’t dress up like the Michelin Man, the safety man makes me wear it. I mean. [00:32:45][11.6]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:32:48] You’re sure? Safety suits? [00:32:49][0.9]
Stuart Turley: [00:32:49] Yeah. I mean, I’ve got one of those things where you pull it and they’re mine. Okay,. [00:32:55][5.7]
Stuart Turley: [00:32:56] That being said. So what’s next around the corner for Valerie? Pinot Monte. What are you doing at your law firm? [00:33:02][6.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:33:03] Well, I work on primarily contract, so I work on exclusively contracts and promissory notes and items of that type. [00:33:09][5.3]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:33:10] The company I work for, John Davis Law is a business firm they only work with businesses is they work with companies they function as a corporate attorney for smaller firms and startups, for example, or companies that just don’t want to be encumbered or don’t need a fulltime legal officer. [00:33:25][15.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:33:27] Okay. [00:33:27][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:33:27] And I’ve really enjoyed the work. I really enjoy working with John. I really enjoy working with the people I work with. And I’m for the first time in a long time, I’m really enjoying my job and it’s a very safe atmosphere which I really enjoy to. [00:33:38][11.5]
Stuart Turley: [00:33:42] A very. That’s a good pun, Valerie. A very safe environment. So there’s no cranes at the law office. [00:33:47][5.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:33:48] There’s no cranes, no buildings and file draw out and walks away so the next person trips start using some of the old safety films in offices. [00:33:54][5.9]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:33:55] There’s one from the fifties Years ago, one of the managers at American Electric Power brought it in for Safety Day, and it was an old 1950s office film and it showed people like leaving file drawers out on the bottom and walking away the same person walks through out of the drawer that’s out, and then they hit something else and then they show. [00:34:13][18.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:34:14] You need to be careful in office environments. Accidents know it was really humorously done. [00:34:18][4.0]
Stuart Turley: [00:34:19] Right. [00:34:19][0.0]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:34:19] You know, you don’t see it they file cabinets as you used to anymore and you don’t see that many people opening them on a regular basis you’re less likely to have those kinds of accidents. [00:34:27][7.8]
Valerie Panamonti: [00:34:28] But it really did a good job of bringing home the safety message with humor. I thought it was a very creative way to to do presentation for safety meeting. [00:34:37][9.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:34:39] Valerie, You don’t want me in your life as either. [00:34:42][2.3]
Stuart Turley: [00:34:45] Well, that’s not my decision. But I will. I will make sure I get the word out. [00:34:48][2.8]
Stuart Turley: [00:34:49] Okay. Well, Valerie, I had an absolutely outstanding time on this podcast, and I am so grateful for your time today and we’re going to have this in the show notes and everything else on your LinkedIn and how everybody else can get a hold of you and those things. So. [00:35:10][21.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:35:11] Give Victor a hug for me. I just I enjoy interacting with him and everything else and Valerie, your time was very much appreciated. [00:35:21][10.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:35:22] Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity and very nice meeting you. Please have a wonderful day. [00:35:26][4.1]
Stuart Turley: [00:35:27] Oh, you bet. [00:35:27][0.0]
[1883.8]
This is a great podcast about the importance of safety in all energy job locations.